Going no contact is a lot easier than it sounds: the biggest issue is "them" not respecting your new boundaries.
My biggest piece of advice is to never respond to them. The 'keeping silent and ghosting' part can be a challenge.
Ultimately, though, you owe them nothing but your happiness.
miss_demeanour 81 points a year ago
henfredemars 45 points a year ago
It's tough. Years of upbringing makes it hard for her to not respond, but even in the best of times they were conservative nuts. But sure, not everybody likes their family's political views, right? They went full Nazi during his first term. Now, they don't even try to hide it and openly admit that they agree with everything happening.
kautau 26 points a year ago
And delete your Facebook account. It’s just generally better for your mental health, it aids in stopping the cycle of billionaires feeding everyone information by whoever pays them. And then it stops unwanted contact from family. They can still post about you, but they’re screaming into an empty void of data centers at that point
Tollana1234567 2 points a year ago
some in-laws are such terrible people once you get to know them. but the IL are the on the recieving ends of the cuts in the bbb, they are getting exactly what they wanted, they are just copium. i had cousins that after the astroworld crush, they were sitll "investing" in that venue, how immoral you have to be to do that, they would be the same people that would work for palintir because of money. asians are quite disconnected from politics/current events.
disguy_ovahea 130 points a year ago
Didn’t vote for it isn’t good enough. 90M people didn’t vote. We needed 2M more to vote against it. Remember this when the midterms come around next fall.
0tan0d 77 points a year ago
We also need a political party that also understands this. The entrenched democratic advisers lost 2 times to Trump and I havent seen any mass firing. If anything, the establishment dems are attacking anyone trying to change.
disguy_ovahea 31 points a year ago
It doesn’t work like that. I’ve been saying this for decades, but maybe this explanation from a political strategist will do a better job.
Simply put, the donors want to win to influence the candidates. They base their data on past voters, not the entire electorate. If you don’t vote, you don’t influence. It’s really always been that simple.
We need to stop rewarding those who have the financial means to reach us in our living rooms, and actively seek out the progressives in every primary. Vote in every election. Stop allowing retirees to pick our candidates and continue to push the Overton Window to the right.
Zagorath 25 points a year ago
But that video basically tells you straight-out… the usual campaign strategies are clearly wrong. You put out a campaign that gets people excited and suddenly way more people get out to vote. It's not a complicated theory. It clearly works in practice.
All of this conversation though, just shows how fucking poor democracy based around voter turnout is. Put elections on a weekend or make it a public holiday, and make voting mandatory (with the option of a blank ballot for those who really object to voting). It doesn't solve all your problems. But it sure does help a lot.
disguy_ovahea 4 points a year ago
Bruh. If you voted, they’d cater their advertising to you. The candidates are still there, you’re not voting for them, and blaming the lack of advertising. That’s like blaming lettuce for not advertising salads and complaining about always eating McDonald’s.
Do you want to take control of your government or not?
crusa187 9 points a year ago
I definitely agree with your last paragraph here. Try to vote in progressives in every primary we have access to in order to use voting to make a difference, yes.
However,
the donors want to win
You mean they want everything for themselves by buying politicians, right? Because often times Dem strategy is so incredibly tone deaf the only thing that’s clear about it is that they aren’t trying to win an election, they’re simply doing what the donors tell them to do. In this case, it’s the classic pretend fight, send strongly worded letters, and then let the republicans narrowly pass the massive tax break for the rich. Which is in fact a win for the donors, but nobody else.
disguy_ovahea 3 points a year ago
That’s not the case if we get behind candidates with good ethics in grassroots campaigns. They choose to accept donations, and can refuse contributions from unsavory donors. We have several clean donor Representatives in the house. It’s not impossible. It just takes our participation.
makyo 4 points a year ago
I saw a great quote somewhere that said something like, "You will understand modern American politics if you realize that GOP politicians fear their voters and Democratic politicians don't fear their voters."
A lot of progressives and leftists use this as an excuse to not vote and act like withdrawing from politics means they're not complicit. What they don't realize is that is exactly what creates this atmosphere where the Dems cater more and more to the center and right to get votes.
Not to mention the general atmosphere like we have on this very thread where the left eats itself alive and divides itself with purity tests that could never work in reality.
Uruanna 2 points a year ago
If you don’t vote, you don’t influence.
That's the stupidest strategy you could have when you know WHY a lot of people aren't voting at all. The only purpose of this strategy is to participate in the degradation of voting shares, and by extension, fascism. You want new votes, you get new people to vote, and you know how to do that. The GOP figured it out (I don't want to say Trump figured it out).
disguy_ovahea 6 points a year ago
How do you think the GOP got those candidates in the election? They enter through primaries. We don’t need to figure it out. We have the goddamn answer. We just need to vote in primaries and stop allowing retirees to pick corporate centrists for us.
WorldsDumbestMan 4 points a year ago
The purpose is you have to stop supporting bad parties from somewhere, otherwise you can be coerced into voting against your interests every single time.
It had to end at some point. Now there is a socialist candidate.
0tan0d 2 points a year ago
I do this but we can go even further. If you are a US citizen looking to change the DNC please look into your local DNC delegation. Taking over the party at the local level is a part of how the mentally challenged were leveraged by the Koch network to effectively take over the GOP.
mrgoosmoos 10 points a year ago
what we need is for people to start exercising their second amendment rights
technocrit -8 points a year ago
There's no way to vote against something that both candidates support (eg. genocide).
disguy_ovahea 18 points a year ago
Your insistence on seeing black and white in a gray world will be your end.
Bytemeister 10 points a year ago
Unfortunately it's also my end.
They didn't vote for trump, but they sure as hell voted for this.
WoodScientist -15 points a year ago
You're the one stuck in black and white thinking. Any Democrat is better than any Republican, by definition. You would canvass for Mussolini if his opponent was Hitler.
disguy_ovahea 19 points a year ago
That’s entirely false. Read my comment history. I spend most of my time on Lemmy trying to engage people in the primary process to unseat the corporate centrists.
Regarding the 2024 election, the Palestinians had two options. Bad, and worse. By refusing to choose, they were going to get worse. People like you would rather not put their names on bad, and let the Palestinians get worse, so they’d have a clear conscience.
I have no respect for the self-righteous.
fkncowardz -1 points a year ago path: 0 18009624 18012668 18014611 18047145, hotness: undefined, score: -1, children: 2
tamman2000 3 points a year ago
Primaries!
If more people voted in primaries we would have probably had president Sanders instead of Trump the first time around
OhStopYellingAtMe 82 points a year ago
FTFY
fkncowardz -2 points a year ago path: 0 18010458 18038632 18047155, hotness: undefined, score: -2, children: 0
technocrit -47 points a year ago
How do you vote against concentration camps when both candidates are genocidal?
OhStopYellingAtMe 33 points a year ago
What would you have me do?
Harris said she would work toward peace talks. Whether this was true or not will never be known. But from what I’ve read, despite what she really wanted, she had to “toe the line” and not stray from Biden’s policies if she wanted to keep her campaign alive.
trump campaigned to not only let Netanyahu “finish the job,” and to write Israel a “blank check,” and to build a resort in Gaza, but also to build concentration camps ON AMERICAN SOIL, and to send Americans and immigrants in the US to foreign concentration camps.
Not voting for either is essentially a vote for trump, in this current political climate.
So voting for Harris is the closest we get to voting against concentration camps.
ShoeThrower 3 points a year ago
The dems in congress are still supporting Israel as hard as ever. Why do you think Kamala, who hasn't done or said anything since losing, would be any different? Are we forgetting she was VP and did nothing for an entire year of slaughter?
OhStopYellingAtMe 0 points a year ago
So then it’s literally a no win scenario, and I had to pick the least bad. My point stands.
fkncowardz -2 points a year ago path: 0 18010458 18012640 18014102 18047171, hotness: undefined, score: -2, children: 0
yanksarekunts -3 points a year ago path: 0 18010458 18012640 18014102 18026498, hotness: undefined, score: -3, children: 6
OhStopYellingAtMe 3 points a year ago
Then you’re a fucking moron. “lmao”
DoucheBagMcSwag 10 points a year ago
Lemme guess.....Whoa whoa genocide joe where did you come from where did you go, where did you come from genocide joe
WoodScientist 5 points a year ago
Exactly. The key to remember is that "vote blue no matter who" is a one-way street with one-way loyalty. Centrists demand loyalty from progressives, but they will never offer the same in return.
Squirrelanna 4 points a year ago
By trying to minimize the amount of ethnic cleansing happening and slow it the fuck down so we have a better chance at stopping it rather than let it go unchallenged electorally and via direct action.
yanksarekunts 0 points a year ago path: 0 18010458 18012640 18025940 18026477, hotness: undefined, score: 0, children: 0
fkncowardz -1 points a year ago path: 0 18010458 18012640 18025940 18047166, hotness: undefined, score: -1, children: 0
yanksarekunts -1 points a year ago path: 0 18010458 18012640 18026451, hotness: undefined, score: -1, children: 0
freddydunningkruger -3 points a year ago
Poor technocrit. Your attempt to keep Republicans in power by infecting progressive-leaning voters with apathy, it just keeps getting weaker and weaker, doesn't it?
Bytemeister -11 points a year ago
Show me one who wasn't "pro genocide".
Edit: 26 down votes, and no one has even tried to put forward a "non-genocide" candidate. Really speaks volumes that they don't even try.
AmericanSuppremacistDetekta 0 points a year ago path: 0 18010458 18012640 18013497 18717526, hotness: undefined, score: 0, children: 0
yanksarekunts -3 points a year ago path: 0 18010458 18012640 18013497 18026508, hotness: undefined, score: -3, children: 1
Bytemeister 1 point a year ago
In general? Yes, but I'd be a lot less ashamed if trump wasn't the president.
Bytemeister 22 points a year ago
Might as well vote for the one that follows the law, won't deport people without due process to an extra-national torture prison, won't demonize and harm LGBTQ citizens, and is willing to be held accountable.
redwattlebird -1 points a year ago
Yeah... Single issue voters like this is what brought this orange demon upon us (again). Israel is really influential; they are going to genocide no matter what with the help of all their allies. By voting (or not voting) on this one issue, you risk huge economic stability and more war, as we've seen.
The entire world knows your political system is rubbish but, whether we like it or not, USA is the world police. And when the world police no longer polices we get emboldened actions like bombing Iran for no good reason.
pedantichedgehog 51 points a year ago
I have a relative who has been on medicaid on and off who "doesn't pay attention to politics". I frequently explain current events to them- like efforts to cut medicaid that may cause them to lose their coverage.
The obliviousness (or complacency, in many cases) of some people is unbelievable.
pedantichedgehog 2 points a year ago
This is sending me
technocrit -9 points a year ago
TBH I don't want to talk to a bunch of libs who put me in a boiling pot. It's annoying, condescending, and it does absolutely nothing to change the water temperature.
dovahking 1 point a year ago
Dude nobody put you there. You were comfortable in an aquarium. You saw the boiling pot, then went and jumped in by yourself. Now you're mad at those who warned you about the pot.
Tollana1234567 2 points a year ago
the "dont pay attention to politics" are the low information voters of trump, there are 2 types of conservatives: one watches fox news, or any right wing related media and consumes current events in a skewed way and somewhat up to date and the other are low info voters people who just take snippets and take the talking heads of (fox or right wing grifters like shapiro) out of the context because they dont understand the full story,
i think most are the latter, i know 2 people that are like this(still supporting ye and believing hes not actually BIPOLAR AND JUST TROLLING)
technocrit -6 points a year ago
If only they had voted!!! It would be a totally different world!!! jfc...
PaulBunyan 48 points a year ago
Remember when Trump wiped women and people of color from DoD and other government documents in his DEI sweep? Fucking sucks man.
technocrit -11 points a year ago
It's not just Trump. It's the state that he operates just like his predecessor and current collaborators in both "parties".
It's a big mistake to assume this is some kind of break rather than a smooth continuation.
prole 8 points a year ago
Biden did not use deportation as a weapon against legal permanent residents, green card holders, infants, and political opponents.
I think you know what you're doing. You're all over this thread. I just realized that all of the bullshit here is you.
freddydunningkruger 1 point a year ago
Technocrit is all over every political thread, doing his best to spread apathy with the progressive voters, helping to keep the fascists in power.
He's been slinging this same tired BS since the election, back when the Russian ops trying to get Trump elected would give him upvotes and keep him out of the red.
yanksarekunts 1 point a year ago path: 0 18008726 18012789 18019754 18024735 18026602, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 1
Whats_your_reasoning 5 points a year ago
Thank you, now Rush is going to be stuck in my head.
(No seriously, thank you. Prior to this, my head was stuck with nursery rhymes.)
Tollana1234567 1 point a year ago
a qoute from a ds9 episode, during one of the dominion episodes, something along the lines "as not doing anything is as bad as supporting the occupation"- vedek
ThePantser 10 points a year ago
I read it as they voted blue.
Tollana1234567 0 points a year ago
michiganers protest voted against her, i think thats the place that had the most effect on her votes, everywhere else is less affected by foreign policy issues.
michagan is important because it has large muslim population, but not all muslims like palestinians, its another history behind that too.
technocrit -4 points a year ago
You don't have to be a genius to oppose genocide, just a decent person.
nexguy -1 points a year ago
Not voting Harris was voting to strip trans rights, destroy jobs with tarrifs, entrench fascist federal judges for a generation, major intensification in climate change ,help the genocide in Ukraine, greatly help the genocide in Gaza.
I put the blame squarely on the non voter.
Edit: vote Harris in THEN protest for better changes.
Tollana1234567 0 points a year ago
alot of conservatives do that, yes many dont vote at all because they cant be bothered, those are the low info voters. there are al group that will not vote for any reason simply because of jury duty summons. some people cant afford 1 day or a few weeks off, and JD doesnt compensate for your loss income, its "pathetically just giving change to homeless people", and employers arnt legally required to do so other either, because its on the courts to pay.
tamman2000 4 points a year ago
I'm not op, but I like speculative fiction. I was really into Ministry For The Future. I also liked Termination Shock.
What have you got?
I think it's pretty rad that you offered to recommend books. You're alright.
Zagam 3 points a year ago
Two other favorites from last year. The Island of Dr. Moreau by H. G. Wells but you should follow it immediately with The Daughter of Dr. Moreau by S. Moreno-Garcia. It's sort of a companion piece written by a female, indigenous author. It bookends the sci-fi by a white guy nicely.
Also, I'll always tell people they should check out the book that is credited with starting sci-fi as a genre. Frankenstein; or, The Modern Prometheus by Mary Shelly. It's horror, it's sci-fi, it's speculative, it's fucking awesome.
And the Blue Ant trilogy by Wiliam Gibson. He's deff not for everyone. He can be really hard to get, and he just dumps you into his world and starts. There is no tutorial. But if he clicks for you, you'll love it.
Zagam 2 points a year ago
I'm not super versed in thriller but my friends have me dipping my feet into horror.
Sister, Maiden, Monster by Lucy A Snider was a favorite last year. Creepy, timely, and let's say visceral.
I'm in the first 3rd of Perdido Street Station now from China Mieville. He's credited with helping start the New Weird. Not horror as such but it's marvelous.
And Light From Uncommon Stars by Ryka Aoki was just a rad read. It's roughly about donughts, violins, and selling souls.
yanksarekunts -3 points a year ago path: 0 18009923 18026554, hotness: undefined, score: -3, children: 4
fkncowardz 0 points a year ago path: 0 18009923 18026554 18029152 18047273, hotness: undefined, score: 0, children: 2
technocrit -18 points a year ago
By all accounts I did everything right.
Maybe the actual problem is your definition of "right".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_religion
Every time I’ve voted, my candidate of choice loses. I’m powerless. I’m not well.
Maybe you should start acting on your own instead of placing your life/future/trust in the hands of some sociopath.
lastunusedusername2 9 points a year ago
Obviously instead of voting you should just go be president yourself.
fkncowardz -1 points a year ago path: 0 18009923 18012695 18013000 18047299, hotness: undefined, score: -1, children: 0
Alcoholicorn 40 points a year ago
Reminder that Hitler lost the election. The liberals endorsed a conservative candidate in the name of unity, who won, and proceeded to staff the government with Nazis and made Hitler chancellor, in the name of unity.
The left, cursed with Casandra Syndrome, campaigned on "A vote for Hindenburg is a vote for Hitler is a vote for war."
In the end, many of them did end up supporting Hindenburg. But liberals will always see the left as a greater threat than fascists.
Alcoholicorn 7 points a year ago
Socialism is the only way to stop liberalism from proceeding to fascism. If the liberals had supported the socialists instead of demanding the socialists vote for them while they create the conditions for fascism to grow, and then hand power to the fascists, we could have strangled it in its crib.
It was as true in the 1920s and 30s as it is today. Hell we even saw the dems choose to fund ICE year after year, after they built the first set of cages, and right now, today, are choosing not to block its massive expansion.
And you have any faith at all that those same people have any interest in stopping fascism?
PugJesus -2 points a year ago
If the liberals had supported the socialists instead of demanding the socialists vote for them
Yes, if only the liberals, who make up a plurality of this country, had chosen to support the socialists, who make up single-digit percentages of this country, they would've won the election in a landslide and everything would be fine right now.
instead of demanding the socialists vote for them while they create the conditions for fascism to grow, and then hand power to the fascists, we could have strangled it in its crib.
As we all know, socialism has never allowed fascism to take root. So glad that problems have easy ideological solutions.
But of course, what am I saying? You're a holodomor and Uyghur genocide denier. You love fascism, as long as it has the right color of paint.
fkncowardz -1 points a year ago path: 0 18020575 18021562 18026383 18047120, hotness: undefined, score: -1, children: 0
Catoblepas 25 points a year ago
I’m sure that’s of great comfort to the people in concentration camps. Legit so gross to acknowledge concentration camps currently existing and being run by your own government, and somehow still making it about you.
peteyestee 3 points a year ago
Never forget. /S
yanksarekunts 0 points a year ago path: 0 18013332 18014500 18026536, hotness: undefined, score: 0, children: 0
Catoblepas -1 points a year ago
Did you phrase it this way to avoid talking about the ones in the US?
At bare minimum they could not turn the existence of these camps into the opportunity to talk about how morally pure they are. Useless and obnoxious at best, callous and heartless at worst.
DerArzt 11 points a year ago
Forgot about the new ones popping up, so I will lump them in as well: what concrete actions can US citizens take in regards to the concentration camps being set up by their government? A government that has the largest amount of military spending on the planet, and has now started deploying that military against it's own citizens.
Atomic 1 point a year ago
You always have options.
Catoblepas -5 points a year ago
Why are you asking me what to do when my criticism of the sentiment in the OP is that it’s self centered and cruel?
If you need to be led around by the nose, probably literally anything else is going to be better than publicly jacking yourself off about how you didn’t want this to happen. I’m sure you can think of something other than self congratulatory meme posting.
mrgoosmoos -1 points a year ago
2A exists for a reason
DerArzt 18 points a year ago
I'm doubtful that an armed US populace will be effective against the militarized police forces and literal military being deployed against Citizens.
The second amendment was more realistic when society had roughly the same fire power as the military, but not so much any more.
They have predator drones, we have AR-15's. These are not the same.
dropped_packet 10 points a year ago
I find this sentiment very funny, considering the United States terrible performance in asymmetrical warfare.
explodicle 2 points a year ago
Did they have predator drones in Afghanistan?
peteyestee 1 point a year ago
I always find it funny when people put hope in 2a.
Sure there's military personal that traffick weapons to the streets, cartel and Mafias... But citizens are going to need tanks, battleships, and airplanes. I want to see air craft carriers floating down the Mississippi.
0x0 1 point a year ago
Start with small groups of ICE agents?
Weapons manufacturing facilities?
Infrastructure? Hacktivism?
Economic targets?
Rich mansions?
Anything's better than shoulder-shrugging after decades of molon labe.
CooperRedArmyDog 1 point a year ago
so why even try to resist right? Lets just say we are sad about it
uriel238 24 points a year ago
We need to be thinking about how 77 million Americans voted for Trump and thought that was a good idea.
And we need to work out how to prevent it from happening again.
One thing is clear, billionaires and politicians are unwilling to relinquish power or wealth, even when their holdings are obscene or they are incapable of governing.
We will have to threaten either their lives or the structures on which their holdings depend, and can't bluff. And they will likely choose death over surrender.
Rekorse 3 points a year ago
We won't prevent it until people learn to start talking to each other with compassion instead of hostility. As it stands, both sides think the other side is completely insane, and to some extent violent, and that they should not be associated with unless you are harassing them.
We've already burned the whole bridge down, and now need to rebuild it somehow. If republicans and democrats were separated geographically they might just split the country in two, but as it stands nearly every state has a large population of both, so in my opinion the only way forward is reconciliation.
pahlimur 7 points a year ago
I'm ex republican. Higher education and having my life ripped apart by our state's AG fixed me... barely. Compassion won't fix these people. They fucking suck to their core and would rather die than change their opinions. I don't have a good solution. Platforming the stupid in our country is a large part of the problem.
pahlimur 1 point a year ago
It's such a hard topic to discuss because everyone has varying exposure to how much ground empathy can gain. After living it, I can say that they are more lost than most people think.
So start treating them the way they will treat you. Personally I'll leave someone to die if they have a Trump sticker/flag/hat/etc, because they would do the same to me.
TranscendentalEmpire 3 points a year ago
We won't prevent it until people learn to start talking to each other with compassion instead of hostility.
You can't empathize with literal fascist... For two parties to reach common ground there has to be an assumption of both parties bargaining in good faith. If you continue to do that with fascist, people end up in camps.
As it stands, both sides think the other side is completely insane, and to some extent violent, and that they should not be associated with unless you are harassing them.
Well.... In the last 30 years, how many mass casualties events have been perpetrated by liberal or leftist extremist? You can't falsely conflate "both sides" when only one has a well recorded history of violence.
There is no common ground when the side you want people to compromise with wants to put me and my family in a prison camp.
We've already burned the whole bridge down, and now need to rebuild it somehow. If republicans and democrats were separated geographically they might just split the country in two, but as it stands nearly every state has a large population of both, so in my opinion the only way forward is reconciliation.
Conservatism isn't an ethnicity....... It's a dangerous ideology that should have been stamped out during reconstruction after the last civil war. But people like you had the great idea of compromising reconstruction with reconciliation, so now we have to stomp it to death once again.
Tinidril 2 points a year ago
As it stands, both sides think the other side is completely insane, and to some extent violent
Um, is it at all relevant that one side literally is insane, or that one side commits 99% of the violence? Where is the Democrats alligator Alcatraz for Christians? Where are the Democratic brown-shirt vigilantes running around with masks kidnapping people?
I think Republicans are insane and violent because I see it with my own eyes. Are we supposed pretend their not? Screw that, I'd rather punch a Nazi.
fkncowardz 0 points a year ago path: 0 18026307 18031571 18044548 18047107, hotness: undefined, score: 0, children: 0
Capricorn_Geriatric 20 points a year ago
And the worst part?
They probably sleep sounder than you.
opavader 18 points a year ago
these manufacturing guilt posts would work if we were not seeing dnc sabotage mamadani to favour predatory stooges just like trump. the “blue no matter what” is only for trash candidates that superpacs want. everytime we get close to a leader that we want like bernie or aoc or mamdani, dnc shows they work for the trumps not against them.
i am not a violent person so pls suggest how we can help get aoc elected in 2029 without doing a luigi on likes of pelosi and schumer ?
opavader 7 points a year ago
does anyone really thinks that these dnc elites actually care about anyone other than themselves and the megadonor billionaires:
opavader 16 points a year ago
she might not be an outsider but she seems to have a spine, supports the progressive cause and candidates. she is the way “lesser evil” that we should be settling for. she is also liked and respected by a lot of fringe gop voters. so there’s a good chance that in time she also get fulls house and senate majority.
Rekorse -2 points a year ago
I dont hear much about what she's done for her constituents outside of social media posts attacking people or performative political actions. I dont dislike AOC but it is accurate to say she hasnt done anything of substance yet.
I will say its clear who will be running for president though, her and newsom are both extremely obvious about it.
Tinidril 1 point a year ago
Going after AOC for allegedly not doing anything for her constituents is pretty damn ignorant. You aren't going to find many House members who are as engaged as she is, and her constituents are overwhelmingly pleased with her.
She is also one of maybe half a dozen House members with an effective social media game. You can belittle it as "performative" but engaging in public rhetoric is a big part of a politician's job. I wish every Democrat advocated as well as she does.
It's funny that you are attacking her on social media by criticizing her for attacking people on social media.
I think it's far more likely she runs for Schumer's seat in the Senate than the presidency. It's pretty much her's if she wants it.
mlg 13 points a year ago
concentration camps and millions being stripped of health insurance and food assistance
So like Gaza?
Because I'm pretty sure this was the logic for people who refused to vote that this very community spent an entire year assuring me was a bunch of tankie bots from ml.
ToastedPlanet 3 points a year ago
The majority of people who didn't vote for Harris don't care about Gaza. They're just larping on the internet.
She wasn't a zionist and wanted to end the war. It was a clear cut decision, but it was a brown and black sacrifice people were willing to make for their moral purity.
ATS1312 7 points a year ago
I was ready to demand my Lefty comrades go vote for Kamala: after all, one Genocide is better than two genocides.
But then she came out "tough on the border" and took that from me. She promised to be every bit as hard as Trump.
But she worked HARD to alienate the Left. She took every piece of rhetoric I had and shat on it.
So we have Kamala caving on Gaza with rhetoric (and walking it back)
But flatly refusing to do anything:
Just like the Liberal Party. Promise almost nothing, make a symbolic gesture, do actually nothing.
https://www.commondreams.org/news/harris-gaza
So when she gets no support, why are Clinton Neoliberal, Reaganomics-poisoned-but-polite Liberals surprised? This is the Country they designed, on purpose.
She wasn't a zionist and wanted to end the war
Citation? Because any time I saw anything indicating that, she IMMEDIATELY walked it back. And I've cited (shitty) sources.
Zink 6 points a year ago
It is possible for her to be a bad candidate who made consistently bad decisions, and for it still to be a bad choice for an individual to not vote for her.
source: *gestures in all directions *
tacosanonymous 9 points a year ago
100% I have voted in every primary until this one bc it was canceled. I still voted for her even though I hated it bc the reality is/was that, of the two choices, she was not the worst.
The time for moral grandstanding is always long past when it’s Election Day.
JustJack23 2 points a year ago
Do you even hear yourself?
ToastedPlanet 3 points a year ago
I dug through my comment history to find this. It has plenty of links.
I read it. Democrats will keep playing the left for fools and moving to the right, no matter what happens.
No Bernie's campaign and Warren's campaign drove Biden to the left on a whole host of issues, including labor unions.
There was no daylight between her and Biden on Netanyahu’s genocide.
Don't lie.
This comment said it best and lists calls for a ceasefire from Harris.
https://lemmy.world/comment/13069715
She’s taken a stance, multiple times. The left doesn’t want to hear it.
March - https://www.npr.org/...
July - https://www.politico.com/...
September - https://www.wsj.com/...
Harris promised to do everything in her power to end the war in Gaza.
“This year has been difficult, given the scale of death and destruction in Gaza and given the civilian casualties and displacement in Lebanon, it is devastating. And as president, I will do everything in my power to end the war in Gaza, to bring home the hostages, end the suffering in Gaza, ensure Israel is secure, and ensure the Palestinian people can realise their right to dignity, freedom, security and self-determination,” Harris said to applause during a rally in East Lansing city of Michigan, home to 200,000 Arab Americans.
Unlike Biden, Harris was not a life long Zionist.
When Joe Biden met with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his war cabinet during his visit to Israel, the U.S. president assured them: “I don’t believe you have to be a Jew to be a Zionist, and I am a Zionist.”
Harris wasn't perfect. And that was simply not good enough for some people who didn't want to risk their hands getting dirty. Even if it meant the Palestinians becoming the cost of doing business.
I voted for Harris and the election is over. That doesn’t mean I’m going to pretend that she wasn’t as committed to Netanyahu’s genocide as Biden was.
Good for you. I appreciate it. No need to spread propaganda though.
FlyingCircus 2 points a year ago
Saying that Israel has a right to exist is Zionist.
fkncowardz 0 points a year ago path: 0 18040626 18040887 18042372 18042982 18047021, hotness: undefined, score: 0, children: 0
ATS1312 0 points a year ago
Thank you for the well reasoned response.
Here is my Issue:
When the Harris campaign did nothing to add teeth to the promise of a ceasefire (such as cutting off the weapons for the genocide would have done)? It comes off as just another empty gesture.
"Ben, stop the fighting! I mean it! we really need this to stop! I mean it!"
Only in the final final week before the election did I find any hope of cutting off weapons shipments. I had to dig, I had to scrounge, I had to be plugged in all day, every day, and trust political tabloids to maybe have it right this time, even as they referenced hints and leaked memos that the reader just had to trust existed.
Evidence was sparse, hard to find, and hard to trust.
Meanwhile, the sale of Palestinian Land https://wagingnonviolence.org/... Continues unabated. We see the incentive even beyond the "manifest destiny" style ideology, we see material gain for Israel to continue as long as ammo will last.
And rather than break from Joe, she wanted to be seen as AIPAC as honoring his commitments. She had a long history of supporting Israel. Publicly. Loudly. Even as that foreign-state's lobby backed people far to her right in both parties. https://theintercept.com/...
This information was widely available. Easily accessible. Why would I trust someone who wants AIPAC campaign money to share my values when I don't even see her articulating them in any meaningful way?
ZombiFrancis 0 points a year ago
There was no daylight between her and Biden on Netanyahu’s genocide.
Don't lie.
You may have missed the "No daylight, kid." thing it seems.
fkncowardz -1 points a year ago path: 0 18040626 18040887 18042372 18042982 18047032, hotness: undefined, score: -1, children: 0
Blue_Morpho -1 points a year ago
She promised to be every bit as hard as Trump.
Bullshit. Biden deported more than Trump. But it wasn't news because he did it legally. Everyone got due process. There were no foreign prisons for the mass deportations. The problem with Trump isn't the deportation but his illegal methods.
ATS1312 2 points a year ago
The problem with Trump isn't the deportation but his illegal methods.
To a Liberal? Sure. One minute court hearings under Obama were technically "due process". https://www.aclu.org/...
I care about my neighbors, not some piece of paper.
For a long time, Democrats have been polite Republicans, and I'm tired of pretending otherwise.
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Iceman -2 points a year ago
So if you voted for Trump for his economic polices or yada yada you didn't also vote for the camps? Harris was a continuation of Biden, lip serivice to peace and unprecidented support to the genocide. Any vote on the ballot was a vote for genocide, if you voted, you voted for it.
ToastedPlanet 0 points a year ago
The people who fed these talking points to Americans were Russian bot farms. Harris is not a life long Zionist. Biden is.
Biden had single-handedly been undermining US foreign policy since he was vice president. He undercut the US position in a private call with Benjamin Netanyahu when the US was trying to leverage Israel into behaving. edit: typo
https://jewishcurrents.org/...
At this crucial juncture, Biden undercut Obama again. After Clinton’s ultimatum, the vice president—who was still traveling in the Middle East—contacted Netanyahu himself. In their book Our Separate Ways: The Struggle for the Future of the U.S.-Israel Alliance, Dana Allin and Steve Simon describe Biden’s discussion with the Israeli prime minister as “a conciliatory call” that had the effect of “undercutting Clinton and reinforcing Israel’s generally dismissive approach to the administration’s periodically tough messaging.” An administration official remembers being “astonished” upon seeing the transcript of the conversation: “Biden completely undercut the secretary of state and gave Bibi a strong indication that whatever was being planned in Washington was hotheadedness and he could defuse it when he got back.” When Clinton saw the transcript, the official recalls, she “realized she’d been thrown under the bus.”
ATS1312 1 point a year ago
The people who fed these talking points to Americans were Russian bot farms.
Russian Bot Farms like... The Times of Israel?
fkncowardz -3 points a year ago path: 0 18040626 18040887 18046949, hotness: undefined, score: -3, children: 0
Tinidril -1 points a year ago
There were a million reasons that people didn't show for Harris. Why do you scold only the people who were outspoken against genocide? Can you point to any evidence that this issue swung the election?
Biden put Harris in a terrible position by holding out as long as he did. Then Harris ran a horrendous campaign. That is why she lost.
People who care about Gaza are people who are politically engaged. That not who stayed home. Politically engaged people vote third party when they want to protest, and third party votes did not sway this election. Not even close.
People who stay home are normies who have given up. A lot of people need inspiration to show up, and centrist Democrats just aren't inspiring.
I can only suppose that your fixation on the genocide issue is because you like the genocide and were pissed off that people objected to it. That's the only reason to bring this trash up in every damn conversation about the Trump administration.
fkncowardz 1 point a year ago path: 0 18040626 18044406 18047044, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
imachillin 10 points a year ago
You voted though, right? For Harris? That’s the only correct answer.
Non voters + Trump voters + Jill Stein voters brought us into this mess. I haven’t heard anything from Jill Stein, as a leader I hope she’s speaking out too to her base. ~~
FordBeeblebrox 4 points a year ago
I used the ballot box and voted straight blue, yes.
Really looking like it’s time for the next box and I hate that but no nazi deserves to breathe
MetalMachine 4 points a year ago
No it was the democrats who put a candidate forward so uninspiring and indifferent on many different issues that people didn't vote for her.
People didn't want come that had no stance against the genocide and was different from biden.
ToastedPlanet 4 points a year ago
No it was people who didn't want to vote for Kamala Harris. Everyone who doesn't work at the DNC needs to learn that lesson. Everyone who works at the DNC has a different set of lessons to learn. Like be a socialist and abandon neoliberalism.
The fact that we had a choice of someone other than Biden was incredible from a political standpoint. It's laughable more people weren't jumping at the chance to elect the candidate who wasn't a lifelong, diehard Zionist.
PugJesus 1 point a year ago
The fact that we had a choice of someone other than Biden was incredible from a political standpoint. It’s laughable more people weren’t jumping at the chance to elect the candidate who wasn’t a lifelong, diehard Zionist.
My personal favorite was when a poster on here, hardly unique but emblematic of the whole fucking rot, swearing up and down that the reason they were so hard on Biden and refusing, under any circumstances, to vote for him, was because they REALLY wanted the Dems to WIN, and that the Dems wouldn't win if Biden was in the seat (probably true). They said that they wanted to pressure the Dems into dropping Biden for someone - ANYONE else - and that they'd gladly vote for a replacement candidate against Trump - even if it was Kamala Harris!
No points for correctly guessing what happened when Harris got the nomination.
starman2112 2 points a year ago
Multiple people can be at fault. The Democratic party definitely fucked up by not holding a primary, but every single person who had a ballot in front of them and decided that letting Trump win was acceptable fucked up even worse
Alaik 3 points a year ago
Just give it up, theyre the same as Republicans who can't admit they were wrong.
They'll act like theyre morally superior while millions more die because of their vastly misplaced arrogance. More Palestians died and will die. More vulnerable people reliant on USAID will die, and rather than admitting you should try to shift left (And I agree the democratic party is center right at best) they just let the worst possible outcome happen.
Theyre not morally superior, theyre morally bankrupt and mentally deficient.
fkncowardz -4 points a year ago path: 0 18033645 18040057 18043726 18044774 18047058, hotness: undefined, score: -4, children: 0
starman2112 1 point a year ago
The Democratic party could and should have done better, but that does not excuse the millions of nonvoters who saw a choice between "some people die" and "exponentially more people die" and decided to effectively flip a coin on it. You are a worse person if you flipped that coin than if you'd just decided to vote for the lower death count.
Not worse than the people perpetrating that genocide, of course. Politicians need to be honest about the Israel Palestine conflict, and influence public opinion away from supporting the genocide. All I'm saying is that that is not an excuse for allowing another genocide against the Latino population in America to happen. Not to mention whoever they'll go after when they're done with that.
fkncowardz -1 points a year ago path: 0 18033645 18047047, hotness: undefined, score: -1, children: 0
OsrsNeedsF2P -2 points a year ago
As a proud supporter of Claudia de la Cruz, I'm sure you'll be pleased to know she hasn't given up her flight: https://www.instagram.com/1claud9/, https://pslweb.org/
tocopherol -10 points a year ago
I am seriously tired of hearing this shit, what point does that matter now? Are you going to change the election? Move forward, we can't do anything about how people voted now and it's just alienating and irritating people.
jimjam5 2 points a year ago
Yup, and the whole “she wasn’t a squeaky clean and perfect candidate for me so I couldn’t vote for her in good conscience” sounds like such a fucking dumb argument in the face of what we’ve seen the other guy has done/will do.
And to the user you replied to: yes, it doesn’t do anything to change reality, but points like this should be noted so hopefully people learn. You vote so a piece of shit like Mango Mussolini doesn’t get to power and dismantle the U.S. government.
P.S. I proudly voted for Kamala Harris
fkncowardz -3 points a year ago path: 0 18033645 18033806 18034891 18037614 18047099, hotness: undefined, score: -3, children: 0
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Pelicanen 2 points a year ago
The "both sides" argument is one of the fascists' favorite ways to inspire voter apathy, maybe take a second to think about harm reduction instead of focusing only on your own moral superiority.
Also, I'm not American, I have never voted in a US election.
Fredthefishlord 5 points a year ago
You're fight, people don't like hearing about the consequences of their own actions. They like sitting comfortably, pretending they did what they could to stop it
Alteon 4 points a year ago
"Look, I know that these people voted for you and yours to suffer, but you just need to get over that so that we can come together and be a happy family again. You not getting over that one little tiny bump in our past just alienates everyone that wanted to see your life destroyed. It was a tiny blip from our past. Just get over it already." ~You....for the most part.
ToastedPlanet 4 points a year ago
People needed to vote for the not fascist candidate in a choice between a not fascist candidate and a fascist candidate.
It's not hard. Learn the lesson or die to fascists. People will be too dead to be alienated.
ATS1312 -1 points a year ago
Okay. Got anything other than time travel as a solution? If not, I need you to get the fuck off the internet, go talk to some neighbors, and do a moral-action to save some neighbors lives.
Is that moral action a crime? Depends on who you ask, which state you're in, and how you choose to do it.
I recommend dragging a full-sized cross in front of an immigrant's door as ICE tries to raid. On camera. In Los Angeles. With bible verses burned into the wood about "love your neighbor" from KJV. Even if you have to make the cross yourself.
Maybe you'll get a good photo op for the movement, maybe you'll psychologically break a gestapo or four.
I'm sure you have other ideas.
ToastedPlanet 2 points a year ago
If we have another election vote in it. Vote for the Democrat candidates. Fill out the ballot with a pen. No larping fan fiction necessary.
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peteyestee 9 points a year ago
They want this. Look at this post from their perspective and it makes you look like joke to them.
I'm not saying this as an insult...
Know thy enemy.
Bubbaonthebeach 8 points a year ago
I see stuff like this and laugh. It would seem that most Americans, Democrats in particular, cling to the notion that they will have a chance to vote again. If there are midterms or another full election, they will be rigged the same as Russia, North Korea or any other "strongman" dictatorship. Keyboard warriors won't make a whit of difference.
ToastedPlanet 4 points a year ago
It's one of the only things we have left to do so we better hope it makes a difference.
The right never gets any shit for using their key boards to advocate for murdering us all and it seems pretty effective for them.
Pharmacokinetics 5 points a year ago
Something something first they came for the something something
NigelFrobisher 2 points a year ago
It occurred to me that everybody uses “Nazi” as a shorthand for psychopathic authoritarianism, but no living generation actually knows what it was like to live through that (disclaimer: obviously there are countries that had this the whole time). This time we’ll actually see the “I didn’t vote for this” voices gradually disappear from the internet and at the end we’ll have a new name for this.
Hikuro93 2 points a year ago
Every human is created equal. But then again - those who believe themselves above other humans and actively hate them and try to strip their freedom away (through race, money, etc) - those I do deem to be less than human, and below me and anyone wanting to live in peace.
The hateful will always have reasons to hate, they actively look for them in everything and base their lives completely on their misery, and their ability to spread it to others like a plague.
If you can't live in a world with people different from you, and you feel the need to harm them, maybe instead of killing them, it'd be easier to get rid of you instead.
ZombiFrancis -1 points a year ago
The Electoral College System: 'I don't really care, do u?'
curiousaur -3 points a year ago
Who did you vote for then?
FlashMobOfOne -4 points a year ago
Yes you did. You just convinced yourself that your team was powerless when they didn't do anything to stop it.
doublebatterypack 0 points a year ago
Lol what should Harris have done to stop this? Please be specific.
explodicle 3 points a year ago
With the benefit of hindsight? Raise hell, break away from Biden, and acknowledge that our economy is not fine.
FlashMobOfOne 2 points a year ago
Jesus, so many things.
- Stop simply handing out subpoenas and arrest Trumpers for ignoring them, and then go on every news show and hammer the message that Republicans are not above the law.
- Go after Joe Manchin's daughter for being part of the leadership of a company that price gouges people for prescription drugs until he starts voting the way the party wants him to.
- Remove all of Kirsten Sinema's committee seats so she can't personally profit off of lobbyist cash, until she starts voting the way the party wants her to.
- Refuse to support genocide. Revoke aid to Israel.
- Have the president hold a press conference, every single day, Donald-style, where all he talks about are the things we can't have because of the Republican-controlled Senate and hammer home the message that obstruction is the reason why food is becoming cost-prohibitive.
- Revoke any federal contracts to gun manufacturers that sell AR-15's to public vendors, and make it very publicly clear that he will do everything he can to bankrupt gun manufacturers who do.
- Pressure RBG endlessly to retire while Obama has control of Congress.
And that's just off the top of my head.
It's astonishing that you've sat through six months of this presidency and you're still able to gaslight yourself into believing that Dems had no power when they had the presidency and Congress. They just didn't give enough of a shit to fight but the hardline fascists do.
Christ, Biden's presidency did nothing meaningful except make people poorer and angrier, and made himself out to be an egotistical, demented buffoon.
yanksarekunts 1 point a year ago path: 0 18010188 18014170 18023907 18026658, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
NauticalNoodle -5 points a year ago
We've had them for over a decade at this point. They were first established and construction started during the Obama administration. During 45 AOC among a few other politicians did a performative photo-op in front of them and then that party as a whole proceeded to do nothing about them. Now we seem to have come back full-circle.
buttnugget 7 points a year ago
Hang on a second. Trump and the Republicans are obviously way more extreme, but Obama was the deporter in chief for a reason. One of the greatest terrorists in world history with the drone program. Just because Republicans are fascist lunatics doesn’t mean we shouldn’t acknowledge what led here.
prole 8 points a year ago
Obama and Biden deported criminals, they didn't go to fucking job sites and brutalize peaceful workers. They didn't deport people to prisons in a third country that the person has zero connection to. They didn't deport green card holders and legal permanent residents.
People's memories can't really be this short, right?
It didn't "lead" anywhere, this is Project 2025. This is what these racist fucks were always going to do.
NauticalNoodle 5 points a year ago
but they did start the "immigrant detention centers."
buttnugget 2 points a year ago
You don’t really seem to understand how society actually works. Liberalism leads to fascism. A Trump is an inevitability when you have decades of neoliberal reforms and barely any relief. No one is saying the two parties in the US are identical. Yes, things are worse right now! That’s not what I’m objecting to here.
peteyestee 1 point a year ago path: 0 18019521 18019664 18020057 18020520, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
Gorilladrums -7 points a year ago
Vote for Republicans = You're an evil Nazi
Vote for Democrats = You're an evil liberal, and liberals are just veiled fascist
Vote for third party = You're wasting your vote, you're probably just a foreign asset
Vote for progressives = You support neoliberalism that masquerades as milquetoast socialism
Don't vote at all = You're a privileged asshole who caused all these issues by not voting
It literally doesn't matter what you do or who you vote for, you simply can't win with these people. There's no appeasing them, they will forever complain about how you vote.
uriel238 9 points a year ago
Ever since the 21st century, voting Democrat (voting against Republicans) has been compulsory to stop the degradation of our institutions to corruption and towards autocratic rule.
But a lot of people didn't get the memo.
And to be fair a lot of Democrat candidates didn't offer anything themselves, but to not be the destructive Republican guy.
The memo part has a lot to do with the massive far-right propaganda machine that is literally controlling minds (just not instantly or with a wavy beam)
The latter part has to do with the mass precarity that neoliberalism allows to persist. If you're going to be in danger under King Log, why not vote for King Heron. And this is an issue across many nations with principle parties being neoliberal and far-right.
freddydunningkruger 4 points a year ago
You forgot someone on your list. You. How would you describe yourself, I wonder? I know how I would.
Gorilladrums -2 points a year ago
Let me guess, am I nazi too?
freddydunningkruger 14 points a year ago
No, you are a propagandist, trying to spread apathy amongst voters who could make a difference. You aren't trying to get fewer people to vote for the Republican fascists, your goal is to spread apathy between the people who might vote against them.
yanksarekunts -1 points a year ago path: 0 18023300 18024050 18024171 18024268 18026417, hotness: undefined, score: -1, children: 0
Gorilladrums -7 points a year ago
I see my point is being proven already
technocrit -12 points a year ago
If all you're doing is "voting", then you have no right to a good night's sleep at all.
If you're still self-righteous about losing like 9mos later, that's even more gross.
Where is this dream candidate anyway? I haven't seen them out there opposing genocide... Much like this gross meme...
Ferrous 4 points a year ago
*ignores a century of withering away of social safety nets and institutions at the hands of dems and Republicans, and primarily capitalists
*at the 11th hour and 59th minute of the devolution into fascism, nobly votes for handwringing and pragmatic genocidaire vs unabashed and bombastic genocidaire
*"I'm doing my part! Screw you, Tankies and Ruzzians for destroying America! Muslim and Arab americans in Dearborn who decided not to vote for a woman who promised to kill their bothers and sisters in Palestine and Lebanon with utmost lethality are redfash, and are the reason for the pickle we're in now. Ignore the last 200 years of history that led us here."
Yep, checks all the liberal boxes. History only starts where it is convenient.
chortle_tortle 1 point a year ago path: 0 18012651 18013042 18019718 18039467, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
doublebatterypack 7 points a year ago
No, they said they didn't help Trump get elected.
DeusUmbra -24 points a year ago
I didn't vote For this at all, but I did know when I voted that this was still the most likely outcome, regardless of whether my candidate won or not. When you are forced to pick between Hitler and Vichy France, you know you are going to lose whoever wins, it's only a matter of time.
DeusUmbra -5 points a year ago
Harris wouldn't have, no, but she would've left the door open for Republicans to do it anyway 4 years from now. There is a reason Democrats never stop Republicans, and never try to ensure they can't take away our rights.
politicalmemes
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politicalmemes
@lemmy.world
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Welcome to politcal memes!
These are our rules:
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Jokes are okay, but don’t intentionally harass or disturb any member of our community. Sexism, racism and bigotry are not allowed. Good faith argumentation only. No posts discouraging people to vote or shaming people for voting.
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Had a discussion with my wife's parents the other day. They thought it was hilarious. They laughed, alternating between mockery of the poor and "nobody helped me so everybody should suffer!"
She said maybe it's time to go no-contact.
save