Homeowner shoots, kills 2 men in ski masks claiming to be officers, HPD says

10 months ago by spaghettiwestern to c/news

The homeowner told police the two men said they were police and claimed they were at the home to serve a warrant.

[The homeowner] became suspicious, because, you know, they have a ring camera too, and the suspects were saying they had a warrant, but it was just two people and they're masked up and no police cars, no lights or anything like that," said Lt. Khan with HPD.

At some point, police said the men shot at the homeowner through the door, prompting the homeowner to return fire.

The homeowner was not hurt in the gunfire, but the two men were both hit and pronounced dead at the scene.

spaghettiwestern 448 points 10 months ago

I was surprised that the masked men weren't law enforcement. Police hiding their faces because fascism is just standard procedure under President Epstein.

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Reverendender 256 points 10 months ago

Police said if you're ever unsure whether it is really the police outside your door, there are some signs to look for.

"Obviously, a police car with some sort of lights and sirens and a bullhorn where we'll be announcing ourselves," HPD Detective Kyle Stringer told Choi.

Stringer noted that real officers do not wear ski masks.

An interesting development

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transientpunk 196 points 10 months ago

I love that I read your comment, then backed out to the main feed and the very next post is of a pig wearing what is effectively a ski mask

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logicbomb 124 points 10 months ago

Stringer noted that real officers do not wear ski masks.

the very next post is of a pig wearing what is effectively a ski mask

The logical conclusion is that that is not a real officer.

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frezik 56 points 10 months ago

Then somebody should be arresting them for impersonating an officer.

That's what happened, right?

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leftzero 13 points 10 months ago

What do you mean, it's clearly a goverment officer, it says it right there on the ground!

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craigers 6 points 10 months ago

Appropriate username

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El_Scapacabra 3 points 10 months ago

Nah, he legitimately works for the goverment.

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bajabound 34 points 10 months ago

It's an easy mistake - good guys wear balaclavas, criminals wear ski masks. Kind of like how the bad guy used to wear a black hat. /s

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spaghettiwestern 95 points 10 months ago

“Obviously, a police car with some sort of lights and sirens and a bullhorn where we’ll be announcing ourselves,”

They always announce themselves except when they don't: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-knock_warrant

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adespoton 16 points 10 months ago

And if I’m ever planning a home invasion, I need to get some red and white flashing light and a bullhorn.

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lectricleopard 43 points 10 months ago

Lies. ACAB.

This is gaslighting at this point. We all see the pigs with masks. We've all seen plainclothes officers in undercover cars make traffic stops.

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Reverendender 43 points 10 months ago

I’m reading it as the quoted police officer is telling us it’s ok to shoot the masked kidnapper-variety police.

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lectricleopard 17 points 10 months ago

It's gonna happen eventually. People are on edge.

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dylanmorgan 22 points 10 months ago

Not disagreeing with ACAB but this particular guy was speaking on behalf of the Houston PD, saying they don’t wear ski masks. The two guys who got shot could be from any number of organizations.

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Nasan 5 points 10 months ago

And all are suitable candidates for shoot and let the courts settle it later.

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anomnom 13 points 10 months ago

The ones in CT were using fucking Subaru Crosstreks for unmarked cars.

I guess “buy American” is less important than “sneak up on future brutality victims”.

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VeryVito 11 points 10 months ago

In many states, cops drive cars stolen confiscated from suspects in drug-related arrests.

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nickiwest 12 points 10 months ago

Breonna Taylor's ghost would like a word.

Seriously, her boyfriend was arrested (but acquitted) for returning fire in their home when police had no lights, no sirens, and no bullhorn.

This officer's advice does not apply anywhere that no-knock warrants can still be obtained.

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icystar 11 points 10 months ago

Stringer noted that real officers do not wear ski masks.

I wonder if this could be cited in court in the case of someone accidentally killing ICE agents, thinking they were robbers or worse.

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rc__buggy 8 points 10 months ago

lol, all that is bullshit. What a bunch of clowns.

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PattyMcB 5 points 10 months ago

Everyone is wrong sometimes

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givesomefucks 51 points 10 months ago

This has been happening for years, Apple even made a TV show about it.

Cops say they do no knocks and mask up for their own safety...

But this is America and people are even more on edge then ever. I honestly can't believe more actual cops haven't been shot by mistake yet.

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Zaktor 18 points 10 months ago

Yes... mistake...

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Mouselemming 28 points 10 months ago

Dollar Store Hitler and his American Gestapo

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FartMaster69 17 points 10 months ago

This is another problem with police hiding their identity, it makes it easier for bozos like this to plausibly claim to be cops.

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adespoton 14 points 10 months ago

They could always have been ice deputees heading home from work wanting to make a little extra on the side….

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HugeNerd 5 points 10 months ago

How about in France in 2015?

https://www.ndtv.com/...

😱

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atomicorange 221 points 10 months ago

Schrödinger’s cop. Every masked creep with a power complex is simultaneously a dangerous criminal you should shoot on sight for your own protection and a police officer with qualified immunity. The waveform collapses when you get tried for murder, if you win it was a criminal all along, but if you get the electric chair it was a cop.

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HugeNerd 38 points 10 months ago

Wave function.

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atomicorange 19 points 10 months ago

That thingy

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chilldrivenspade 19 points 10 months ago

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RememberTheApollo_ 9 points 10 months ago

Just means more aggressive actions by cops to preemptively subdue any resistance. You’ll get a flashbang and tear gas launched into your backseat, dragged out and cuffed at a traffic stop.

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vivalapivo 5 points 10 months ago

Thankfully, tear gas could be bought on Temu

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jordanlund 189 points 10 months ago

"Stringer noted that real officers do not wear ski masks."

It's going to be very, very interesting to see how this one turns out!

Always a good idea to be aware of lethal force rules where you live:

In this case, Houston, Texas:

https://www.houstoncriminallaw.com/...

"The Role of the Castle Doctrine in Texas

The Castle Doctrine is a key element of Texas self-defense laws. This principle allows individuals to use force, including deadly force, to protect themselves in their homes, vehicles, or workplaces without a duty to retreat. Under Texas law, your “castle” is considered a place where you have a legal right to be, and force may be justified when:

Someone unlawfully enters or attempts to enter your home.

The intruder is committing or attempting to commit a violent act, such as robbery or assault.

You reasonably believe force is necessary to protect yourself or others.

There are some limitations to this principle. For example, the use of force is typically not justified if the intruder is retreating or if you initiated the altercation."

So, assuming the story is accurate, and remember, initial reports are almost always INACCURATE...

"At some point, police said the men shot at the homeowner through the door, prompting the homeowner to return fire."

So, yeah, as soon as they shot through the door, Castle Doctrine is in play.

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Zak 53 points 10 months ago

So, yeah, as soon as they shot through the door, Castle Doctrine is in play.

Standard self defense law also covers this in every US state and most countries; if someone is shooting at you and there's no way to quickly get to a place where they can't hit you, it's legal to kill them to make them stop.

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Nougat 37 points 10 months ago

And what you want to say (with an attorney present) is that you used necessary force to eliminate the threat.

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Archer 29 points 10 months ago

Shut The Fuck Up Friday

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Sterile_Technique 26 points 10 months ago

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EvilEdgelord 15 points 10 months ago

Some cops actually wear ski mask-type stuff like that when they do sting operations. Seen it myself a few times.

I want to be clear that the ski mask cops I have seen actually had badges or uniforms or some kind of identification on their person.

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FaceDeer 28 points 10 months ago

Maybe this could be a warning sign to those cops that they shouldn't do that, or they might be shot.

Oh, who am I kidding. That just means cops in ski masks will shoot first more often.

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lectricleopard 10 points 10 months ago

Yeah, they want to turn the temperature up. If they can just start shooting brown people on sight, it'd make everything easier.

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Zaktor 22 points 10 months ago

"Police said the two men were wearing bulletproof vests and had some sort of badge around their necks."

The Nazis want badges alone to be enough of a signifier, but frankly anyone trying to break into your home without presenting identification and a warrant should be treated as a threat.

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PattyMcB 14 points 10 months ago

ICE agents wear masks more often than not, from what I can tell.

Know your rights!

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icystar 3 points 10 months ago

Badges and "identification" can be bought at dollar stores.

Nobody is going to be able to check their authenticity in the middle of a firefight, and by the time you let criminals enter your house to show you their "ID", it's already too late.

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Zaktor 15 points 10 months ago

Not that people with guns trying to break into a house are necessarily very smart (both burglars and Nazis), but what's the plan here? You hit the homeowner and then you just have a shot guy on the other side of a still locked door. You gotta be really dedicated to robbing that particular house this particular night to jump to do that.

I'm guessing the order of events is off. Shooting at thugs trying to break into your home and those thugs shooting at someone shooting at them makes perfect sense.

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riskable 14 points 10 months ago

This is Texas we're talking about. There, people shoot at each other just to say hello some times 🤷

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lectricleopard 21 points 10 months ago

Unless you're responsible for protecting children during an active shooter situation in a school. In that case, you let the active shooter say hello to everyone while you piss yourself.

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Mouselemming 8 points 10 months ago

Maybe they were trying to shoot the lock. Akin to smashing car windows and dragging people out, as they've done in LA.

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burntbacon 4 points 10 months ago

Eh, if it's a standard door in america, a few kicks will stave it in. So they would have open access to the house in just a moment after they ensure there is one less resistor on the inside.

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merc 4 points 10 months ago

In reality, if the masked intruder you shoot happens to be a cop, then Castle Doctrine is irrelevant. You're now a cop murderer. They'll figure out some legal or extra-legal way to see you behind bars or dead.

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PowerCrazy 2 points 10 months ago

Not 100% true. Though I admit it's rare, but in Texas a man was acquitted after killing a police officer trying to break into his house. Castle-Law absolutely came into play there.

https://www.foxnews.com/...

This is the most recent I can find, but it's happened several times in the past as well. It should happen more often, but unfortunately the defender rarely survives.

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merc 1 point 10 months ago

The story you linked isn't about a police officer trying to break into a man's house. It's about a road rage incident.

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PowerCrazy 1 point 10 months ago

Castle-Law applies to being in your car as well. But yea, the story I linked is similar, but not the one I was thinking about. It's very hard to find specific news stores these days unfortunately. :/

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jipund 1 point 10 months ago

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_stranger_ 173 points 10 months ago

I feel the headline should have noted that he shot in response to them shooting through his goddamn door first.

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outhouseperilous 40 points 10 months ago

Journalistic reflex; cops are always innocent.

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FordBeeblebrox 21 points 10 months ago

BREONNA TAYLOR, member her? Just a raid gone wrong

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Burninator05 10 points 10 months ago

There have been do many stories of police botched a raid and killed people exercising their 2d Amendment rights in non-threatening ways. Typically the 2A nuts still rally around the cops.

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notarobot 6 points 10 months ago

I dont think it matters. The title conveys the idea that they weren't police. I think you could claim self defense just by that. No one that wants you to open the door falsely claiming to be policie is NOT going to hurt you

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JackbyDev 47 points 10 months ago

It's a huge difference. It may not seem different to you and I, but shooting someone who shoots you first is more universally viewed as acceptable self defense than only shooting people claiming to be police in skimasks on your doorstep. The headline buries the lede.

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TheReturnOfPEB 152 points 10 months ago

lots of us said that this would be exactly what would be happening with masked police using constant escalation dominance as a tactic.

this is civil war behavior from a civilization.

it will also lead to blood feuds between people and the police as a whole. i expect to see more actual police police getting ambushed even if they are in a sanctuary city and are not acting to aid ICE.

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ayyy 51 points 10 months ago

expect to see more actual police police getting ambushed even if they are in a sanctuary city and are not acting to aid ICE.

Unless the cops start shooting ICE on sight for the safety of their neighborhood, they are complicit and get what they deserve.

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otter 12 points 10 months ago

ACAB. Shoot fascists in masks in their masks. Full stop.

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ameancow 7 points 10 months ago

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EldritchFeminity 11 points 10 months ago

They don't need the excuse, just look at D.C. in the past week. And escalation will only make things worse for them. They're looking at an armed insurgency situation akin to the "War on Terror," which proved that an entrenched group amongst the populace is impossible to oust because anybody could be an insurgent, and taking one out will create more people willing to take revenge. There used to be an excellent Flash game about this very point where you shot cruise missiles at terrorists walking across the screen. And every time that a missile would explode, it would inevitably hit civilians in the area, and those nearby would turn into more terrorists. You'd just continue to fill the screen with more and more terrorists than there were originally until eventually you gave up.

Somebody a few weeks ago said in a thread on a similar subject that the military's conclusion was that you need about 3 soldiers for every insurgent in a population. There's no way that they can draft as much as theoretically 75% of the population.

It's a whole lot of bluster, and if we could get organized we could topple the whole thing. ICE has homes they go back to at the end of the day. They don't have army bases to hide in.

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MonkeMischief 4 points 10 months ago

That flash game sounds like political art. Just WOW. As an aspiring game dev that's just a brilliant way of getting the point across that I could only dream of.

The trouble with a lot of these things, sadly, is getting it in front of people who need to get the message rather than those who already agree with it from the start.

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bradorsomething 2 points 10 months ago

And their families, sadly.

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LordCrom 134 points 10 months ago

Quote "Stringer noted that real officers do not wear ski masks. "

So law enforcement just went on record saying ICE agents with masks are not actually law enforcement.

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meep_launcher 35 points 10 months ago

I feel like if someone dressed up as ice and joined in a raid only to cause internal chaos could deeply hinder the operations of ICE as they all become suspicious of each other and lose trust in their team.

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SabinStargem 23 points 10 months ago

I have a prediction: the more professional and organized members of ICE would actually be foreign agents, causing problems at key points. Say, for example, "vanishing" unfriendly politicians. ICE is the perfect cover: Low recruitment standards, no regulation, bounties for those times you need to get money, and no one able to ask questions.

It would be the chaotic and unprofessional members of ICE that are native to the USA. Those would be just into ICE for the money and racism, not patriotism to their nation. This will become a "Lions Led by Donkeys" episode in a decade or two.

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monotremata 7 points 10 months ago

Why would you think it's only foreign agents who would use ICE as cover to disappear politicians they don't like?

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SabinStargem 7 points 10 months ago

I don't. However, it is the most obvious way for other nations to attack America without drawing attention. Hopefully, the same vulnerability would also allow the John Browns of our time to crack open concentration centers from the inside.

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outhouseperilous 2 points 10 months ago

Why would they need to be 'foreign'(

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Dasus 7 points 10 months ago

It's so badly organised and chaotic anyway they wouldn't even notice

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meep_launcher 6 points 10 months ago

Fair point. My girlfriend is Irish and compared them to the black and tans.

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iAvicenna 11 points 10 months ago

this quote should form the basis of any defense arguments for future ICE shootings

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Bakkoda 5 points 10 months ago

I support this and agree.

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modus 5 points 10 months ago

They wear neck gaiters.

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ssfckdt 133 points 10 months ago

HPD Detective Kyle Stringer told Choi.... that real officers do not wear ski masks.

🤔

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lemmy_outta_here 51 points 10 months ago

Detective Stringer doesn’t watch the news.

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WalterLego 42 points 10 months ago

Detective Stringer makes a well calculated statement about his stance on ICE.

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nomy 4 points 10 months ago

Sounds like he could be having an awakening.

Hope his brothers don't turn on him.

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kreskin 95 points 10 months ago

Good for the homeowner. Any "law enforcement officer" who hide their faces and wont show ID are probably acting criminally and they should not be tolerated by society.

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SabinStargem 85 points 10 months ago

Good. ICE and lookalikes are cut from the same putrid cloth, that is best disposed of.

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PattyMcB 72 points 10 months ago

ICE wear masks, and no-knock warrants are a thing.

Kudos to the home owner for being vigilant and shooting BACK once they opened fire

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Zaktor 14 points 10 months ago

And they should be shot while doing so.

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treadful 71 points 10 months ago

Police said if you're ever unsure whether it is really the police outside your door, there are some signs to look for.

"Obviously, a police car with some sort of lights and sirens and a bullhorn where we'll be announcing ourselves," HPD Detective Kyle Stringer told Choi.

Sir, please go turn on your siren and announce yourself on the bullhorn so I can confirm you're a real cop.

How is that their actual advice...

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fmstrat 49 points 10 months ago

Context. He immediately followed it up with:

Stringer noted that real officers do not wear ski masks.

I don't think this is the officer to complain about.

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jjjalljs 18 points 10 months ago

Some of those that work forces...

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JusticeForPorygon 17 points 10 months ago

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Sterile_Technique 6 points 10 months ago

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Mediocre_Bard 6 points 10 months ago

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kreskin 8 points 10 months ago

You cant be a cop if your IQ is too high.

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EldritchFeminity 2 points 10 months ago

Quite literally for those who think it's a joke. Judges have ruled that the cops can refuse to hire you if your IQ is above a certain score. They have also ruled that cops are not required to know the law.

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Blackmist 64 points 10 months ago

Probably realised they weren't real police because they knocked rather than just kicked his door in and shot his dog.

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DeathByBigSad 0 points 10 months ago

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HugeNerd 64 points 10 months ago

Can we Gofundme him a new door?

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Nasan 7 points 10 months ago

Do the door frame, lock, and hinges too. Just in case.

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mrgoosmoos 5 points 10 months ago

Afroman might cover it

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jimjam5 60 points 10 months ago

Hope the homeowner is acquitted of any wrongdoing or damages in court.

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burntbacon 45 points 10 months ago

It's texas. He'll probably get a medal or something from his local law enforcement and a round of talk shows on fox if the colors line up with what fox likes/doesn't like.

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chiliedogg 38 points 10 months ago

I'm from the area. It all depends on how white and Republican you are. They stack the Grand Juries with "respectable members" of the community (white, male business owners typically) who no-bill white folk for killing minorities.

In a very public case, a white small business owner/homeowner shot 2 unarmed minorities in the back, killing both as they fled a neighbor's house. They never stepped on the killer's property and never threatened anyone. The homeowner called 911 and said he was going to kill them and get away with it. The operator said not to shoot and to go inside because police were just seconds away, and he killed them anyway.

The grand jury refused to let the prosecutor take the case to trial because killing black people is a public benefit in their eyes.

So the families of the victims sued the killer, and the state responded by outlawwing civil suits over any case involving a firearm that didn't first include a felony conviction.

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BJ_and_the_bear 5 points 10 months ago

Damn, that’s all incredibly fucked up

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PowerCrazy 3 points 10 months ago

This is actually why Texas is great and Joe Horn did nothing wrong. You can't trust the police, but I absolutely trust my neighbors.

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chiliedogg 4 points 10 months ago

When a cop says a minority wasn't charging somebody when they got shot to death, I am more likely to believe him.

And let's not forget that the police department chose not to arrest him because he was a white business owner. If Horn had been black, he'd have been killed on the scene or executed in Huntsville.

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michaelmrose 3 points 10 months ago

So I looked up the case for anyone's edification what happened is 2 pieces of human garbage were robbing his neighbor and running away with bags of their valuables. Aside from being robbers they had criminal convictions in Columbia for drug trafficking.

When confronted by the shotgun wielding neighbor the dangerous drug trafficking robbers refused his order for them to stop and one ran onto the neighbor's yard TOWARDS the shotgun wielding neighbor and the other ran away. He shot both.

Quoth the shooter

Horn, to dispatcher: "I had no choice. They came in the front yard with me, man. I had no choice."

Because of this the rest of the neighborhood wasn't victimized by drug dealing robbers breaking into their houses. Nobody ultimately had a run in with scumbags because someone was home when the robbers thought the place was empty. Nobodies family members got murdered to avoid leaving witnesses. Nobodies sanctity got violated.

But don't worry the New Black Panthers protested the scumbags deaths and threatened the fellow making their entire side look deranged and unreasonable when there are plenty of bad shoots by trigger happy cops perpetrated against actually innocent victims they could have been focusing on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/...

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chiliedogg 7 points 10 months ago

The shooter told 911 they were coming at him, after basically saying he wanted to go kill them. The police officer who witnessed the killing said they were fleeing and that he shot them in the back.

I'm not some anti-gun dude. I own over 50 guns and used to work in the industry.

But that motherfucker should be in jail. Non-violent criminals don't deserve the death penalty - least of all from some psycho neighbor who has a hard-on for violence and essentially announces his intent to kill before going outside and killing.

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MonkeMischief 6 points 10 months ago

This definitely shows a lot of perspective, thank you!

I really wish people looked at these cases more objectively, considering the humans involved and not simply:

"How can I paint this to forward my narrative obsession of the moment?"

It's like our entire society is based around social media clout farming. I know weaponized reporting is nothing new, but sheesh.

I wouldn't feel I had much choice either, if someone who just robbed a neighbor was charging at me in the dark. Suddenly after the fact, the internet is chock full of experts in ballistics and self defense law.

But you're right, it definitely defeated a future threat to the neighborhood residents. I haaaaate suburban Rambo Nextdoor toughguys as much as the next reasonable person, but this doesn't sound like that.

There's plenty of systemic issues to tackle around crime, but breaking into peoples' homes to loot and potentially harm them is always a choice carrying a significant weight of FAFO.

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michaelmrose 2 points 10 months ago

It appears that it wouldn't speak to cases that were never brought it would only immunize them if the grand jury is sought and declines to indict OR the case is dismissed rather than requiring a conviction to bring the suit.

This means they can't opt out of liability by ignoring the case. This doesn't appear on its face to be bad law. If Texan's decline to indict when they ought to then that not the law is the issue.

Likewise if its even possible to stack the jury that again is the problem not the law.

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chiliedogg 3 points 10 months ago

No. It applies to all civil suits regarding gun crime.

It effectively raises the standards of civil suits when guns are involved, which are not supposed to be the same as criminal.

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michaelmrose -1 points 10 months ago

as they fled a neighbor’s house

Were they leaving a neighbors house or were they in fact fleeing from robbing the neighbors house.

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chiliedogg 5 points 10 months ago

They had been burglarizing the neighbor's empty house and were leaving.

That isn't worth killing over.

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BrianTheeBiscuiteer 36 points 10 months ago

If it was cops or ICE, everything else the same, they would definitely be in custody on a $100 million bond and charged with murder and terrorism.

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_stranger_ 2 points 10 months ago

So long as he's not brown or poor.

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outhouseperilous 2 points 10 months ago

I'd say you're right, but the kidnappers were cops.

Yeah not offilicially, but they had masks and guns and ill intent and were claiming the titled, so cop unions will pressure prosecutors to go hard.

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MapleEngineer 56 points 10 months ago

Stringer noted that real officers do not wear ski masks.

Someone tell the fascist brownshirts that work for ICE that.

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Burninator05 12 points 10 months ago

ISE doesn't wear ski masks. They wear balaclavas. They're totally different and easy distinguishable in the dark during high stress situations. /s

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outhouseperilous 5 points 10 months ago

Id rather they didn't.

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Reverendender 48 points 10 months ago

KHOU 11's Michelle Choi spoke with a neighbor, who said they heard a total of 22 gunshots.

The homeowner was not hurt in the gunfire, but the two men were both hit and pronounced dead at the scene.

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cybervseas 42 points 10 months ago

I…who can count that many gunshots?

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teft 65 points 10 months ago

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salacious_coaster 30 points 10 months ago

Do you not?

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Reverendender 24 points 10 months ago

Texans

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frezik 8 points 10 months ago

You sure? There's conflicting eyewitnesses accounts of how many shots were fired at JFK. The Warren Commission settled on three, and whatever it actually was, it couldn't have been that much more.

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peoplebeproblems 11 points 10 months ago

Nobody said they were good at counting.

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aramis87 14 points 10 months ago

Well, if you have a Ring camera, you could playback the video.

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cybervseas 5 points 10 months ago

Possible. If that’s the source, then the reporter didn’t report it correctly.

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rc__buggy 7 points 10 months ago

Honestly, you start counting as soon as you hear the first one. Glock is what, 14+1? Big .357 only holds 6, some 38 special revolvers hold 7. Counting can save your life.

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frongt 9 points 10 months ago

Glock has a bunch of different models with varying capacities. And some companies make extended magazines that hold up to 40 rounds. And that's just Glock.

Counting is not possible in real life.

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Nougat 2 points 10 months ago

The Glock 43 carries a 6 or 7 round mag standard, you can buy 12 round mags and 50 round drums.

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rc__buggy 1 point 10 months ago

I mean, I count all sorts of shit and gunfire is one of those things.

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Nougat 7 points 10 months ago

Depends on which Glock, whether it’s fitted with an extended mag or not. Count all you want, if the other person is using a semi auto pistol, you can’t know how many rounds they have loaded, and changing to a fresh magazine takes almost no time.

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rc__buggy 3 points 10 months ago

Well, don't count then. IDGAF

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bookmeat 4 points 10 months ago

I thought I read somewhere that there was a Ring camera.

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aramis87 5 points 10 months ago

The homeowner has a Ring camera, not sure about the neighbor.

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jordanlund 2 points 10 months ago

https://youtu.be/OG9EDE_bnws#t=26s

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unconsequential 3 points 10 months ago

So what you’re saying is… he did think they were cops.

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some_guy 42 points 10 months ago

Stringer noted that real officers do not wear ski masks.

I dunno. Depends on the agency, these days.

I hope the people directing ICE to mask up take notes of this. They won't. If they do, they'll take the wrong lesson from it.

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CompostMaterial 32 points 10 months ago

No, the original statement was correct. Real law enforcement does not wear ski masks. Scared Nazi cosplayers wear ski masks.

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ubergeek 8 points 10 months ago

By all accounts, ICE are real law enforcement, with the power, and authority of the state to enact the will of the ruling class on us.

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Goldmage263 2 points 10 months ago

Close enough I suppose. I think of them as Decree Enforcement. Nothing lawful about how they act.

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ubergeek 1 point 10 months ago

"Unlawful" basically is whatever is enforced by the courts, in the US.

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cute_noker 5 points 10 months ago

Scared Nazi cosplayers wear ski masks.

And they are bestowed power above the justice system by the commander in beef

Wishful thinking is enticing

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Kyrgizion 41 points 10 months ago

Hey man, nice shot.

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ramenshaman 20 points 10 months ago

Nice shot, man.

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deadbeef79000 6 points 10 months ago

Man shot nice.

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ramenshaman 2 points 10 months ago

https://youtu.be/o9mJ82x_l-E

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DeathByBigSad 41 points 10 months ago

This is why is a good idea to have an armed citizenry and well-regulated militias operating with transparency.

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MonkeMischief 7 points 10 months ago

I agree, and I still feel much of our country's gun safety issues are educational and cultural issues, rather than permission itself.

I do NOT believe in mandatory military service, but I do think our citizens should be much better taught in how to be useful, reasonably disciplined, and coordinated human beings, to themselves and others. This shouldn't be just "soldier training."

Emergency management, wound care, and team coordination should not be "specialized training." Then maybe sense would become more common and organized, sane militias would be viable.

Instead, failing things like "wearing a mask above your nose" and "not shooting yourself in the foot" are excused by "lack of specialized training." Good Lord, I weep for the species.

Human beings are incredibly capable, and on the whole we've let ourselves be domesticated into consumer cattle...

I believe education is constantly gutted by these loons WHILE they push the gun-religion and rugged-individualist narrative so that the uneducated 'muricans FEEL tough, but stay effectively powerless to coordinate a resistance to actual tyranny.

Hell, they can't even recognize it right in front of them anymore, or in their hearts and minds.

But hey, let's keep our chins up! Maybe leftist gun ownership will be a cool symbol of freedom now, and we can openly mock the neolib "only cops should be able to protect you" disarmament fairytale.

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icystar 4 points 10 months ago

Transparency?

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some_kind_of_guy 4 points 10 months ago

Transparency: noun. The quality of being done in an open way without secrets.

Example: "the DHHS office was being operated without any transparency. That is until we walked in on the Secretary in the conference room fully nude, savagely defiling the corpses of various large mammals as he quaffed a goblet of raw sewage water."

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icystar 2 points 10 months ago

Sorry this has to be spelled out for you, but I was questioning what he meant by transparency as it applies to the subject.

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mrslt 37 points 10 months ago

I love happy endings.

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roguetrick 31 points 10 months ago

Bullet proof vests and fake badges? Wasn't a robbery but a st Valentine's Day massacre style hit job.

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aramis87 29 points 10 months ago

Is anyone else finding this story a little strange? Not someone finally shooting fake-ICE people. But:

Fake-ICE is wearing bulletproof vests and shoots at the homeowner through the door. The homeowner isn't injured. Fine.

The homeowner returns fire, through the door, hits and kills the two guys wearing bulletproof vests. Doesn't that strike anyone else as odd? Both dead, neither injured, despite bulletproof vests, despite being shot through a door?

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millie 40 points 10 months ago

Not really. A bulletproof vest won't protect your head. Meanwhile they're standing directly on the other side of a door that they're shooting through, while the home owner could have been anywhere on the other side of the door. They're playing a guessing game, but the homeowner can just shoot the door at head-height and their bulletproof vests will mean nothing.

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kuhli 29 points 10 months ago

Vests cover vital organs, but there's a lot of other places you can be shot and killed.

Bulletproof vests are also only rated for certain calibers too, mostly of what you'd think of as a bulletproof vest will only stop pistol calibers. Sure, you can get stuff that'll stop rifle shots, but then you're looking at wearing multiple 5-10 lb metal plates and spending quite a bit of money to get them.

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Nasan 5 points 10 months ago

And they'll only stop a number of rifle shots, typically intermediate caliber. Once you're dealing with an opposing force using .338 lapua, you might be better off adopting the gecko45 school of duct taping plates together and using your spouse as a human shield as you make your way to your fighting weapon.

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burntbacon 2 points 10 months ago

Oh god, I never think about that guy until he's brought up, and then it's a hilarious morning read to go through all the insanity again.

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Treczoks 19 points 10 months ago

How many vests cover the face? You can also shrapnel their groin area, and they bleed out before any ambulance will be there.

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SabinStargem 13 points 10 months ago

One of the reasons why I picked a shotgun and use 000 buckshot is because of the spread. I assume my aim sucks, and hope that hitting the bad guys in a unarmored limb will be enough to remove them from a fight.

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theherk 6 points 10 months ago

It’s got a good spread.

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NeilBru 2 points 10 months ago

Look, I wanna scare the fucker off, not redo drywall.

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Katana314 5 points 10 months ago

The other good thing about shotguns: Low penetration. If there's a victim visible behind your attacker, you're likely to hit them with any kind of projectile. But, if there's a victim behind a wall or in a house behind your attacker, at least a shotgun will stop at the drywall.

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AlecSadler 1 point 10 months ago

Any recommendations?

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SabinStargem 6 points 10 months ago

If you talking shotguns, I am an amateur, so use a hefty block of salt: I have a VR80. It is a semi-auto that uses magazines, which should make it better for military situations. My guess is that if civil war breaks out, both sides will initially be recruiting troops with whatever kit they happen to have - formal outfitting by Blue States would depend on where and when you are, so it would be better to bring a gun that is fit for combat in the first place. If you live in California or other restrictive states, you remove a pin and split the gun in half, allowing the mag release to operate. Apparently a small piece of the tool can be removed to permanently enable the mag button.

The VR80 will take a good number of rounds fired before it starts to loosen up. Jamming is an issue during the break-in, but that is fine if you are practicing. This weapon in particular prefers more powerful rounds, and is designed to be ambidextrous, along with being AR-15 style for addons. If you can, ditch the stock - it doesn't telescope, and feels awkward to me.

Rock Island Armory VR80 Shotgun Review

How to: Choose the Right Shotgun Choke

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aeternum 1 point 10 months ago

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Soggy 1 point 10 months ago

Yeah, practice at the range until your aim doesn't suck.

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MML 7 points 10 months ago

There's also the option where the vest stops it but you have a crushed sternum

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ArmchairAce1944 5 points 10 months ago

Also if you're using magnum slugs then God help you...

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sunbytes 19 points 10 months ago

There's different types of vest, and they're rated to stop different types of bullet.

If these guys are just pretending to be cops, they may well have just grabbed the cheapest vests they could find that looked convincing.

And a rifle round could have just punched straight on through a vest only rated for pistol rounds.

Also most vests don't cover the neck or sides of the body. Or the big arteries in the legs.

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ArmchairAce1944 5 points 10 months ago

Also the vests could have been fake.

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Katana314 6 points 10 months ago

Honestly, if their goal was to imitate the appearance of cops, that seems likely. I imagine full kevlar is pretty expensive.

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burntbacon 2 points 10 months ago

I think you can get a III-a vest for about $500. That's not terribly expensive, but a criminal planning something like this may have been a little rushed and strapped for cash. It's been a few years since I cared to even look, so prices may have gotten higher.

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ArmchairAce1944 1 point 10 months ago

It depends. If you're buying brand new, brand name stuff, then yeah, it can be pricey. But if you're milsurp stuff, then it is not as expensive... but be warned, Kevlar absolutely degrades over time and a vest that is 6 or 9 years old may not be able to stop the same bullets it would have been able to when it was factory fresh or just a few years old.

BTW, you can buy ballistic armor that looks exactly like normal clothes, but those are expensive as all fucking hell. This hoodie can stop up to a .44 magnum, but it will set you back by more than 700$ (I am thinking of taxes + shipping costs on top of the actual hoodie).

My take is that it is very likely that they were prop vests, meaning they were just simple clothing and will do nothing to stop a bullet.

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Rakonat 16 points 10 months ago

Homeowner probably has a peep hole, in addition to the ring camera giving him locational knowledge of where the purps were outside the door. They could only guess where he was.

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SabinStargem 13 points 10 months ago

A bulletproof vest reduces harm, not negate it. Also, vests come in a variety of grades. As can one expect, the heavier and more expensive ones offer more protection, but those can still fail. Vests, like most insurance, only offers so much coverage from disaster.

Body Armor Basics

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kreskin 11 points 10 months ago

Doesnt seem odd at all. Maybe he had a rifle or a combat shotgun and they had pistols. Or maybe he found cover and they didnt.

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icystar 1 point 10 months ago

Texas gun law requires going through a bit more effort to legally buy handguns instead of long guns, so this is very plausible.

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njm1314 11 points 10 months ago

I mean you got to remember a bulletproof vest is still you know, a vest. Plenty of places you can killed that aren't on your chest.

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pulsewidth 8 points 10 months ago

Who said it was a solid door? Could be a screen door or a door with a window pane.

Occam's razor the problem instead of looking for a conspiratorial or nefarious solution when there's no reason to.

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MourningDove 8 points 10 months ago

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yeahiknow3 10 points 10 months ago

200% damage multiplier.

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MourningDove 7 points 10 months ago

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nickiwest 1 point 10 months ago

The neighbors heard 22 shots. Most of that could have been a pray-and-spray tactic by the homeowner.

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pineapplelover 29 points 10 months ago

Finally, some good wholesome news

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wabafee 9 points 10 months ago

Hole'some news indeed

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Gammelfisch 27 points 10 months ago

Circle pattern the door and your bound to hit the bastards. Glad to read the mask is backfiring.

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Proprietary_Blend 27 points 10 months ago

So. Were they cops or not?

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PattyMcB 13 points 10 months ago

Not.

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Chozo 20 points 10 months ago

Dang.

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ayyy 7 points 10 months ago

Unclear. ICE lies constantly.

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BombOmOm 26 points 10 months ago

Fuck home invaders. Glad the homeowner had the tools to defend himself!

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nul42 25 points 10 months ago

In other news two positions for ICE officers just opened up for the Huston area.

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icystar 23 points 10 months ago

Nice.

Doesn't surprise me that this sort of this is starting to take off in Houston.

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Boddhisatva 22 points 10 months ago

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III 5 points 10 months ago

Why "play" when MAGA zealots can just become ICE agents and get paid to be racist and violent?

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Pacattack57 19 points 10 months ago

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Thedogdrinkscoffee 19 points 10 months ago

Bandits wear ski masks. Bandit home invaders get blasted.

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cley_faye 18 points 10 months ago

Good. Keep your home safe. I'm not big on how guns are handled in the US, but your home is your home, and law enforcement must be clearly identifiable.

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WizardofFrobozz 17 points 10 months ago

Good start.

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HexadecimalSky 17 points 10 months ago

iirc there has been precedent set for stand your ground laws even if they where police, if they did not reasonably defend yourself. If they dont provide a warrant, stand your ground.

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frog_brawler 16 points 10 months ago

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Ironfist79 15 points 10 months ago

Shame this doesn't happen more often.

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kent_eh 4 points 10 months ago

I'm surprised it hasn't

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Buffalox 14 points 10 months ago

Link redirects to their Youtube channel instead of showing the article?
https://www.youtube.com/@KHOU

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Ethanol 14 points 10 months ago

yeah, I had the same problem. Probably because I'm connecting from Europe.
Here's a link from the Internet archive where you can read the article.

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Buffalox 5 points 10 months ago

Thanks. 👍

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lectricleopard 12 points 10 months ago

Where is this thin blue line they talk about? Ain't protecting anyone from shit.

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ipkpjersi 12 points 10 months ago

In Canada, they'd probably arrest the home owner and have the courts sort it out. No joke.

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Zaktor 29 points 10 months ago

That's honestly fine. If someone ends up dead, especially if the killer is the only surviving witness, it's pretty reasonable to have a thorough determination of responsibility and legality.

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ipkpjersi 2 points 10 months ago

Yep, but going through those motions is enough to ruin someone’s life because of ruining their employment prospects because of their name being associated with horrific crimes, even if they are entirely innocent.

Arresting someone because a crime may have occurred, without there being evidence to determine such, is not great, especially when there’s video proof that it was self defense. It’d now be up to a jury putting the home owner under a microscope to determine if the homeowner made the correct split-second decisions in a situation so stressful they can’t even imagine what it’s like because they never lived through it.

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nova_ad_vitum -4 points 10 months ago

Criminal charges are not necessary for that and this line of thinking is insane. The victim of a home invasion must now necessarily be charged and re-victimized by the justice system? This practice won't last.

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MBech 9 points 10 months ago

No one said they should be charged, but they need to be investigated to determine that it was actually a home invasion.

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burntbacon 2 points 10 months ago

Do you think an investigation could occur on scene, where you have a ring camera, dead individuals who might be able to be identified as not cops, their car, the evidence on the house's door of bullet holes, etc. and show that the homeowner maybe was justified? Maybe?

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TheReturnOfPEB 9 points 10 months ago

do you have any past news stories that approach this type of response from the Canadian government ?

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ipkpjersi 2 points 10 months ago

Yeah, I do.

A home-owner was recently attacked by an armed man (who had broken into several homes before, he had a record of doing so, and had been arrested multiple times already) and was arrested and charged because he himself was armed: https://globalnews.ca/...

The crown prosecutor has not dropped charges so far.

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melsaskca 3 points 10 months ago

The homeowner likely gets off scott free but in Canada we still have to go through the legal motions. The cop on the scene does not have the right to let the homeowner off, the courts do.

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ipkpjersi 2 points 10 months ago

Yep, but going through those motions is enough to ruin someone's life because of ruining their employment prospects because of their name being associated with horrific crimes, even if they are entirely innocent.

Arresting someone because a crime may have occurred, without there being evidence to determine such, is not great, especially when there's video proof that it was self defense. It'd now be up to a jury putting the home owner under a microscope to determine if the homeowner made the correct split-second decisions in a situation so stressful they can't even imagine what it's like because they never lived through it.

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melsaskca 0 points 10 months ago

I agree that guilt by association may cause problems for the victim but the most reasonable way to proceed is to gather facts and evidence and make decisions based upon that information. I believe that this process is the most effective, even if there is absolute proof that the victim is innocent (assume there was a live stream of the incident for all to see and everyone who saw it was shown that the victim was innocent). We should still jump the hoops and fill out the forms.

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ipkpjersi 3 points 10 months ago

I just don't agree, I don't see how victimizing someone twice when there's absolute proof they are innocent is in any way productive or a good thing for society. It's really shitty and can ruin someones life when they've already been through a traumatic event. It's bordering on being downright evil tbh.

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burntbacon 2 points 10 months ago

I'm curious how idiotic your cops are there... Do they get to arrest folks just because a crime might have occurred, or do they need evidence of it? Because a ring camera video, AND bullet holes in the door with tell tale markings of traveling inward, towards the homeowner, plus outward, AND the car on the street, AND the masked individuals that are now easily identified as NOT COPS all screams to me that no crime was committed.

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ipkpjersi 3 points 10 months ago

Yes, they would likely arrest them anyway because a death (or multiple deaths) took place and let the crown prosecutor and then juries handle it.

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melsaskca 0 points 10 months ago

Some cops are idiots, most aren't. About the same everywhere I guess.

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DeathByBigSad 2 points 10 months ago

Canada has jury trials don't they? Arrest is means suspicion, doesn't mean a conviction will happen especially with a sympathetic jury. On the other hand, the US's rule of law has kinda been falling apart. They could get murdered while in pre-trial detention.

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burntbacon 2 points 10 months ago

Arrest is means suspicion

Arrest means the arresting officer has probable cause to believe that a crime occurred. In this case, with two individuals dead outside of a house's entry, the door having bullet holes that have markings consistent with bullets traveling in directions into the house and out of it, and the ring camera evidence, I'd say it would be ridiculous to have any belief that the homeowner committed a crime.

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ipkpjersi 1 point 10 months ago

Yep, but going through those motions is enough to ruin someone’s life because of ruining their employment prospects because of their name being associated with horrific crimes, even if they are entirely innocent.

Arresting someone because a crime may have occurred, without there being evidence to determine such, is not great, especially when there’s video proof that it was self defense. It’d now be up to a jury putting the home owner under a microscope to determine if the homeowner made the correct split-second decisions in a situation so stressful they can’t even imagine what it’s like because they never lived through it.

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DeathByBigSad 3 points 10 months ago

Exactly, I defended myself against a bully in school and the fucking school admin called the police on me. Fuck everyone involved with that school admin. ACAB.

I was like 17, I was not born in this country.

I was so lucky that my mother naturalized as a US Citizen (edit: because Child Citizenship Act automatically made me a Citizen so I don't have to do Naturalization myself), because imagine having to explain to the USCIS Natualization officer about the arrest record. Because they ask about all arrests, as in: any that ever happened, including those that did not result in convictions, or even crimes that were sealed expunged, or pardoned. They can see those records so lying is pointless (and they could retroactively revoke any immigration benefits obtained when they find out in the future).

"Innocent until proven guilty" yea right, totally. If you are white and citizen at birth, maybe, cuz otherwise they can fuck over your life, tell you to go to a country you've never been in for a decade.

Fuck CCP for ruining my birth country. Fuck USCIS, fuck ICE, fuck conservatives. So many adversaries I have to deal with in this fucked up universe.

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ipkpjersi 2 points 10 months ago

Yep, I defended myself against an intellectually disabled bully who bit me randomly, the teachers high fived him, and I got suspended for the day. I was super young at the time, but I still remember it vividly, and now that I'm older I'm lucky that it wasn't worse and that they didn't try calling the police on me at the time even though I was only defending myself but it was still a fucked up situation regardless.

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petrjanda 7 points 10 months ago

The solution is more guns don't you know!

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ubergeek 4 points 10 months ago

Yes, it is. Being able to return fire ended this.

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ChojinDSL 2 points 10 months ago

American Walls and doors are just paper maché anyway, so he could have killed them just as well by throwing the bullets at them like Charlie Sheen in Hot Shots.

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jellygoose 1 point 10 months ago

Front doors are usually steel.

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possumparty 3 points 10 months ago

What? If anything they're stamped aluminum.

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WhatYouNeed 3 points 10 months ago

Or uPVC doors.

Great watching the police battering rams just bounce off those when they try to break them down.

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mrgoosmoos -10 points 10 months ago

hopefully we see more situations like this where unknown aggressors attempting to abduct people are successful

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braxy29 2 points 10 months ago

unsuccessful?

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