And there is some progress too afaik
unexposedhazard 70 points a year ago
village604 54 points a year ago
There's been "progress" every few years for decades. Male birth control is basically the medical equivalent of battery technology.
I'll believe it when a pill makes it to market.
ThatGuy46475 21 points a year ago
Just like cold fusion
FooBarrington 4 points a year ago
I mean... you know that you can buy batteries today, and they're much better than the ones you could buy a decade ago?
village604 14 points a year ago
The point is that on a regular basis there are articles about some amazing new battery breakthrough, but it never leaves the lab.
DaGeek247 40 points a year ago
I had thought that another part of it was the levels of harm compared to the problem; getting pregnant is incredibly stressful and possibly harmful, up to and including death as a possibility. A medicine that can stop that but has side affects that are less harmful than pregnancy is a lot more palatable. Whereas, for men, the harm caused by pregnancy is zero, so any harm caused by the pill is weighed a lot heavier.
psivchaz 35 points a year ago
It's really frustrating how often this gets framed as sexist, when it's a totally different problem. I get why people would equate them but they are very different biological processes. Producing a baby is a complicated process, and there's a lot of steps that we can intervene in to prevent it. Producing a million sperm is, maybe surprisingly, less complicated and it's harder to target a specific thing and produce easily reversible results.
Men have had vasectomy on the table for a long time now. It's just more serious than most forms of female birth control, in terms of implementation and recovery, still not foolproof, and not as easy to reverse.
Even more frustrating is that sexism definitely does exist and play a role. It's just more about the human parts of the process, like dealing with medical staff, dealing with insurance, dealing with local, state, and now federal governments that want to bar access to women. Looking at the pill side is misplacing the anger.
kameecoding 5 points a year ago
I am pretty sure there have been attempts at temporarily blocking sperm so not having to do vasectomy for decades and it was not yet successful, it's not like this problem is not being worked on because scientists are sexist or something
village604 14 points a year ago
There are also medical benefits to female hormonal birth control besides not getting pregnant.
Dragonstaff 3 points a year ago
We do have to remember that "First do no harm" is not a universal law of ethics or anything, it's just the way the powers that be think about things.
medgremlin 0 points a year ago
I think men should consider the potential harms to their partner in their calculus. If a man participates in causing a pregnancy that results in serious complications or death, I would sincerely hope that he would be as devastated by the loss of his partner as he would by suffering the harm himself. If men can't empathize with their partner enough to consider the risks to her, then he shouldn't be having sex in the first place.
bassomitron 19 points a year ago
So far, there’s no male birth control pill on the market. But there are two types of birth control pills in the works: YCT-529 and dimethandrolone undecanoate. YCT-529 is a hormone-free male birth control pill that aims to stop your body from making sperm by targeting the vitamin A signaling that makes sperm production possible.
Researchers studied the effects of this male birth control pill on animals. They found that in mice, after four weeks of use, it was 99% effective in preventing pregnancies. In primates, sperm counts dropped in just two weeks of use. Researchers also completed a phase 1 human study to test how safe and tolerable the drug is. Now, they’re recruiting participants for a phase 1B/2A study, but more research is needed before this drug can hit the market.
The other male birth control pill, dimethandrolone undecanoate (DMAU), may also be available as an injectable. This one is a hormonal birth control, meaning it impacts your male sex hormones, causing them to temporarily stop your body from making sperm.
In a phase 1 study, participants took DMAU for 28 days. But the participants weren’t relying on DMAU for birth control, so more research is needed. Even though a phase 2 trial is in the works, it’s not complete.
Huh. I thought the trials had been completed, but I guess not. Feels like I remember hearing about them like 4-5+ years ago.
Derpenheim 15 points a year ago
You'll continue to hear about them every few years for the rest of your life. Its always "just a couple years" away.
Axolotl_cpp 2 points a year ago
Also, that imply i have to plan doing sex weeks before if i have to take the pill
TAG 0 points a year ago
Also, that imply i have to plan doing sex weeks before if i have to take the pill
Same with the female pill. The intended usage is that you take birth control regularly, regardless of how often you actually have sex.
Axolotl_cpp 12 points a year ago
Also we have condoms too so i don't get what everyone is talking about
Axolotl_cpp 3 points a year ago
As long as you both don't mind, enjoy
FridaySteve -1 points a year ago
Happy father's day.
j_overgrens 3 points a year ago
Condoms are horrible for birth control.
MisterFrog 1 point a year ago
Yes, but even when used correctly the chance of pregnancy is still significant.
And many people do not know how to use them correctly.
This is a yes and situation. (You should use condoms regardless of other contraceptives, for sexual health reasons)
village604 6 points a year ago
Basically. There's no biological advantage for men to shut down sperm production, so evolution never pressured a mechanism to do so.
turdcollector69 4 points a year ago
It's been attempted multiple times and every time the effects are non-reversible and have horrible side effects.
It's essentially all the negatives of hardcore anabolic steroid usage without the muscles.
It sucks but the reality of it is guys are basically too simple to disrupt without seriously fucking everything up but woman are more complicated so relatively minor tweaks can achieve the desired effect.
village604 1 point a year ago
It's more that there's not any reason for the body to have developed a mechanism to stop sperm production.
Success in evolution is largely accomplished by reproducing better than those without your mutation. Shutting down sperm production does the opposite.
WhatGodIsMadeOf 1 point a year ago
So basically it's like jailbreaking an iPhone?
village604 1 point a year ago
More like trying to root a Samsung phone with Knox (for men)
agent_nycto 70 points a year ago
Weird how it seems like it's all for women and safe sex but then criticizes a tool women have to checks notes take control of their sex lives and make decisions about getting pregnant.
medgremlin 15 points a year ago
Non-surgical birth control options for women tend to come with a lot of side effects and a number of risks that don't always outweigh the benefit. Hormonal birth control can cause tons of problems for the women taking them and some of them are associated with life-threatening side effects like increased risk of clotting leading to DVTs, PEs, and strokes.
kuhli 5 points a year ago
Yes, and male birth control doesn't solve these problems because the only way to be 100% sure is to be on birth control yourself, especially important with huge chunks of the US banning abortions
medgremlin 5 points a year ago
It's not a great option for more casual encounters or early in relationships, but for established couples that already have children and don't want more or are in a committed, trusting relationship, male birth control opens the possibility for the male partner to ease the burden of birth control effort and side effects.
agent_nycto 1 point a year ago
And it's their choice to pick that option and it's not my place to remove that option because I'm done rando on the Internet who thinks he knows better
medgremlin 2 points a year ago
I'm absolutely not advocating for removing that option. However, increasing the options for male birth control is necessary for a wide variety of reasons, including allowing male partners to take the burden off of their female partner if she isn't able to tolerate the side effects or can't find a birth control method that actually works well for her. It is, in effect, another birth control option for women to be able to defer some responsibility to a male partner in a committed relationship.
agent_nycto 1 point a year ago
I just checked and yeah, your comment didn't say anything about birth control options for men and only talked about the negative effects of the pill.
So you see why one would think that you were trying to say that the birth control pill is a bad thing and that we should remove it.
14th_cylon 2 points a year ago
and no sane woman should believe that, because if she will later find the guy was lying, it is not going to be the guy having to deal with the consequences. so it is quite stupid take.
14th_cylon -3 points a year ago
what?
ThunderclapSasquatch 3 points a year ago
Who decides if the baby is born? Certainly not the father. And once she has decided it means HE has no choice in the matter.
FridaySteve 6 points a year ago
No sane person should leave something that important to the sole responsibility of someone else no matter who they are.
Eta: Until I turned 30, everyone I knew who had kids was "on birth control"
underscores 21 points a year ago
based
SatansMaggotyCumFart 10 points a year ago
Honey your desperation is showing.
JackbyDev 3 points a year ago
I do think that birth control pills having 1 week of sugar pills to force periods rather than 1 week of optional pills to allow skipping periods is pretty fucked up though. The term conspiracy is pretty intense though. But it's super fucked.
Jarix 7 points a year ago
Was curious about the placebos and came across this if you are interested.
A paper that suggests there is no medical evidence why there should be a break in hormonal pills and that you can simply just start a new pack of pills and continue going on with your life
PrincessTardigrade 2 points a year ago
Yes and your prescription then runs out early, leaving you without birth control for multiple weeks
Jarix 4 points a year ago
Sounds like a logistical problem, not a medical problem.
I used the word should.
As in the system right now is flawed and could be better.
What point are you trying to make because I'm not picking up on what you are putting down
Droggelbecher 2 points a year ago
It's less of a conspiracy and more that it didn't even occur to society until pretty recently (in historical terms) that reproduction isn't solely a woman's responsibility
Wizard_Pope 3 points a year ago
Well yes. But it also occured to society that stopping 1 egg per month is easier than millions of sperm every day.
Droggelbecher 4 points a year ago
This sounds like it would make sense on the surface, but is just not true. You can look up pretty easily that there wasn't really any research on the viability of male hormonal birth control until half a century after female hormonal birth control became a thing, so it's not like they made a rational decision based on scientific findings. When they found out how to do it for men, it was roughly comparably complicated, with similar side effects. This too is easy to look up.
It makes sense that the side effects were too much to legalize hormonal male birth control because today's standards are much higher. Which is a good thing ofc- im glad they don't allow new medication as easily as they did in the past. Female birth control wouldn't be legalized if it was invented today, and neither would, for example, aspirin. They get to stay around because they don't take that stuff back out usually, even if it wouldn't pass modern standards. That's a bit of a tangent though.
Scirocco 2 points a year ago
Many men would LOVE a reliable, non-condom, male-controlled birth control method
Currently for men there are two options --- condoms, which are problematic and difficult in several ways, or vasectomy, which is essentially permanent or at least difficult and uncertain to be reversed.
The third method is to take WAY too many TOO HOT baths, but that also has uncertainty and is a real hassle.
As it stands, really for men they either need to use a condom, or trust that your female partner is reliable.
Bennyboybumberchums -1 points a year ago
Is that why men have been wrapping their dicks in all sorts of weird shit for thousands of years? Animal intestines and bladders to name but a few. Fuck your "in historical terms", youre talking out of your arse, just like every other sexist who makes hating men part of their personality.
Droggelbecher 1 point a year ago
Why is everyone in this thread acting like men are always the ones providing and insisting on using barrier methods? Have yall talked to a woman who's had casual sex before about what it's like out there?
Bennyboybumberchums -1 points a year ago
Yes, men AND women are both taking responsibility. Just because you can point to few cases of morons, doesnt make "women are sluts who use abortion as birth control" anymore true than the bullshit youre pedalling. But nice try, trying to get out of the "historical terms" bullshit, but shifting the focus to modern day... Doesnt at all make you look desperate to be right, regardless of facts...
Theres bad apples in every bunch. Only a bigot tries to frame that bad apple as the whole bunch.
BarneyPiccolo 43 points a year ago
Dumb. It's a lot easier to stop one egg a month, than zillions of sperm multiple times a day. Simple as that.
ryannathans 20 points a year ago
Not only that, there's an interruptible cycle of egg release. There's no regular interruptible cycle in men.
AquaTofana 5 points a year ago
I find sex less enjoyable with a condom. Im still able to have a good time NOT getting pregnant.
j_overgrens 3 points a year ago
Condoms are horrible for birth control though.
FridaySteve 1 point a year ago
Based on what?
BarneyPiccolo 3 points a year ago
Science and Statistics.
A 15% failure rate counts as "horrible" in my book.
BarneyPiccolo 0 points a year ago
And everybody DESPISES them.
Besides, they aren't very good at either birth control or preventing disease, and they are the most effective anti-sex invention ever.
BarneyPiccolo 3 points a year ago
Exactly. In the case of men, that has turned out to be the most effective method in blocking a literal flood of sperm.
People claim that men wouldn't use a daily pill, but guys don't want their women getting pregnant any more than the women do, at least not until they are ready. If it existed, most guys would gladly take a pill that would keep them from 18 years of child support, just like most women do. In fact, having double contraception would reduce unwanted pregnancies significantly, which would also reduce the abortion rate, which might help bringing down the political temperature a bit (no, it won't).
It's not us men resisting male contraception, most of us would love it. It's just not mechanically as easy to do for men as it is for women. It's a science problem, not a market segment problem. Make it, and there will be customers for it.
curiousaur 41 points a year ago
This is just logically wrong.
If birth control was only made for men, and 90% of men were on birth control, you could end up with far more pregnancies than if it's for women and 90% of women were on it.
The conclusion is exactly the opposite of the argument.
LeFantome 15 points a year ago
Yes. Because 10% of men is enough to impregnate all the women.
As a guy though, I wish there was male birth control. I do not love that women get to decide if they are going to make me a father or not.
LeFantome 3 points a year ago
For what it is worth, my son was the result of the mother deciding where I would ejaculate through the use of “in the moment” physical force. So no, it was not really something I could control (though the risk of being there was my doing I understand).
TheTux 2 points a year ago
Besides, I believe there have been drug trials for hormonal birth control for men, but they never got approved.
Take with this a mountain of salt though, I need to check my sources. I'll update later if I can find them again.
GianBarGian 3 points a year ago
Yes, that's exactly the point of the post in the first place, 1 man can impregnate many women, a woman can't get impregnated (contemporary) by many men
Electricd 4 points a year ago
But a woman can deny as many potential pregnancies. The count ignores women who are already pregnant, both as men or women.
A man can cause up to X pregnancies and thus prevent as much, a woman can only cause 1 but can prevent as much as a man. The important point is that this all matters before pregnancy. After, it doesn’t make sense anymore.
W3dd1e 1 point a year ago
Idk why I got downvoted. I just don’t understand, I’m not trying to make a point.
I meant the 10% of men aren’t having more sex to make up for the 90% that are on birth control. They would be having the same amount of sex either way.
Maybe I’m over thinking it.
hakunawazo 17 points a year ago
More like that:
angrystego 38 points a year ago
It's the woman who'd get pregnant and who doesn't want to. Should she rely on whether the men took their pills correctly? Taking hormones sucks for many women, but they're happy to be able to have birth control in their hands.
LorIps 32 points a year ago
Yeah, I think people forget why the pill was such a game changer: It allowed women, without the permission or knowledge of their husband/sexual partner, to decide whether or not they wanted to get pregnant.
kunaltyagi 7 points a year ago
Should there be an temporary contraceptive for men? Yes, it gives agency to men and also provides an alternative to women who can't use female contraception for a multitude of reasons.
Will that be preferred by all women? Hell no
mech 5 points a year ago
It would be great if there was an alternative to them.
For people in trusting long-term relationships who want to have sex without a condom on.
So that the burden of birth control doesn't default to the woman altering her hormonal balance.
angrystego 2 points a year ago
I don't understand the downvotes. Condoms are great.
balance8873 6 points a year ago
Taking hormones can also be a significant positive, depends on the person.
balance8873 1 point a year ago
What are you talking about?
SpaceCadet 37 points a year ago
Counterpoint: a woman taking birthcontrol is empowered because she is taking charge of her own reproduction. She doesn't have to rely on or trust the man to take his pill. After all, she would be the one bearing most of the burden in case of an unwanted pregnancy.
Additionally, purely biologically it is much easier to reliably stop conception on the female side than on the male side. A woman only produces one egg cell per month, whereas a man produces millions of sperm cells per day.
FridaySteve 35 points a year ago
The most commonly produced, available, and used birth control method worldwide is the latex condom, used by everyone who has a penis. Try again.
TommyJohnsFishSpot 34 points a year ago
Cumming 9 times a day??
RattlerSix 4 points a year ago
Don't forget to hydrate
KryptoSynth 1 point a year ago
So hear me out; have the lad cum onto a table, use a postcard or something to divide the subject matter into 9 equal parts, then have the ladies come in and snort it up their pussy.
I'm not a professional in this field fyi.
wampus 33 points a year ago
Nah, this isn't a great point at all.... even at face value really.
Put slightly differently, if we're assuming people sleep around as much as the text implies, if we focus on birth control solely for men, then one 'failure'/non-controlled man would result in a ton of pregnancies. If the onus is on women, then one 'failure'/non-controlled woman would result in one pregnancy.
davidagain 32 points a year ago
If the numbers were correct and your aim was to reduce pregnancies, you could prevent 90% of pregnancies by getting roughly 90% of sexually active women to take the pill. Getting 99.95% of sexually active men to take the pill would have NO effect whatsoever on the pregnancy rate, because the remaining 1 in 2000 men would continue to meet and impregnate a woman roughly once every hour for roughly 12 hours a day (with breaks for food and resting his dick a tiny bit) for 9 months straight, with time to visit 430 women a second time in case these miracle impregnators somehow didn't always impregnate on first meeting a woman. (This would very drastically reduce diversity in the gene pool and the world would be very very very badly interbred within two generations.)
But of course humans don't behave like the numbers suggest AT ALL, thank goodness.
DragonTypeWyvern 28 points a year ago
The Lemmycels are pretty angry at this one, but on the other hand it's pretty silly to trust dudes with birth control when you're the one that gets pregnant.
curiousaur 6 points a year ago
What do you mean by that first sentence?
NikkiDimes 7 points a year ago
The whole comment is only a single sentence...
Formfiller 5 points a year ago
But we’ve had the technology to make it an option for a long time
DragonTypeWyvern 3 points a year ago
Sure, but as others have pointed out you'd still just end up with literally everyone on birth control.
Which is fine. Certainly makes random failures less likely.
Gladaed 3 points a year ago
It's a reductive argument. It suggests that the world actively decided to harm woman. A man not taking a contraceptive or forgetting to could inflict disproportionate harm on another person. There are many great reasons why it is the way it is.
Also the numbers are all out of whack. It makes sense that some would argue against it.
jali67 1 point a year ago
People who didn’t make it beyond high school level biology think this meme is some sort of hard hitting argument 😆 it is much easier to control terminating 1-2 eggs in a cycle than millions of sperm without causing infertility.
ryannathans 27 points a year ago
Why stop at 9
DragonTypeWyvern 6 points a year ago
That's what the pregame is for
WalterLego 10 points a year ago
Best incision I have made.
mojofrododojo 4 points a year ago
walterlego's bragging about operating on lightsong, and sparing us more of them.
odd flex but perhaps there's something there.... time will tell
kryptonianCodeMonkey 25 points a year ago
9!? You think I can cum 9 times a day!? And apparently hit the egg every fucking time too? I don't mean to question the conclusion because I think birth control should be both parties' responsibility, but I think your premise reveals a distinct lack of grasp on biological reality. Why stop at 9? Why not 900? Really drive your point home! My dick is going to be useless after number 2 or 3 anyway.
Axolotl_cpp 10 points a year ago
If i cum today and i want to cum tomorrow i will already feel a weaker sensation, probably if i cum 2/3 time in a day that sensation will be as good as laughing at a joke that isn't even that funny
StupidBrotherInLaw -6 points a year ago
Cocaine is your friend here, good sir.
kryptonianCodeMonkey 2 points a year ago
"Okay, yea, my nose is always bleeding, my heart is on the verge of exploding, and I am at constant risk of having a seizure at any time. But my dick is rock hard and I can cum like 10 times before I start bleeding from the chafing. Wanna fuck?"
Who recommends coke to help your sex life? What is this, 1988? My guy, no one needs that much sex. If you do, and you use coke to help you, you might have two addictions.
StupidBrotherInLaw 1 point a year ago
I'm being facetious: it would actually work, but it's a stupid idea. Forgot the /s.
LemmyKnowsBest 5 points a year ago
I think she liked the number nine because 9 months pregnancy so she used the number 9 for everything in her hypothetical scenario
michaelmrose 23 points a year ago
So in this imaginary never ending orgy it would still make sense for the women to take the pill because if 99% of the men do the other 1% will somehow make every single women pregnant.
bountygiver 22 points a year ago
You still need it.
When you see a driver running a red light, you still brake even if your light is green.
BotsRuinedEverything 19 points a year ago
9 times per day... So ok. You know how women love to give men shit for having a poor understanding is basic female biology? This is that.
Bennyboybumberchums 17 points a year ago
Counter point, all men are rapists(according to the wisdom of the internet). Therefore, birth control is protection against the onslaught of unwanted semen that comes from all the endless rape.
Or, if you arent a perpetually online moron, birth control allows women to control their reproduction. Its a symbol of liberation and freedom for women, who can now enjoy sex at their want without worry of pregnancy.
In over words, shes making a shit point. This is like all the clueless cunts moaning about women in short skirts in Star Trek, not realising the the mini skirt was a symbol of sexual liberation for the time.
Scirocco 8 points a year ago
The best option all around that I've seen is Vasagel, which is the western development based on RISUG which was a successful Indian trial
https://www.planaformen.com/vasalgel
The major complication for it has been that no pharma wants to invest in it, likely because if doesn't have good profit potential.
It is a one-time 'shot' of a physical gel that blocks the vas deferens (sperm channel) and is fully reversible simply by being flushed out again.
However, since it is not an ongoing monthly profit ahem, prescription, there is not a lot of money to be made.
No hormones, no pills, fully reversible, simply blocks the sperm exactly like a vasectomy, just very easily reversed. It can all be done in clinic with a syringe (perhaps tho the syringe will be a blocker for some men)
Scirocco 5 points a year ago
Well, I've not had it since it isn't available yet.
But I get what you mean about the needles in the dong.
But most likely, the needle is through the side of the scrote, which might not be much better.
Probably best to just not watch.
It is less invasive than a vasectomy, since it's a needle and not a scalpel, but ofc it's not as simple as a pill
On the other hand, it's one-and-done and nevermore worried about unwanted paternity claims.
zaphod 2 points a year ago
Not in your dong, the only thing in there is the urethra, and unless you never want to pee again you don't want to block that. The injection would probably be somwhere close to where you would cut the sperm duct in a vasectomy.
theparadox 2 points a year ago
So once again, it's capitalism. Surprise surprise.
Scirocco 2 points a year ago
Yea it's pretty clear.
Capitalism and religion, with maybe a little bit of 'public health' thrown in
There's strong bias against contraception in general from some religious groups, and it is strongest against the "easier" forms. For example, among Catholics technically ALL contraception is forbidden, but condoms are more acceptable than an IUD, both of which are considered by some sects to be 'abortifacient' --- on the theory that it merely prevents a fertilized egg from implanting on the uterine wall.
So condoms are 'better' because it is a barrier method.
The only Catholic-approved BC is abstinence of course.
Public Health also has a strong bias towards condoms, because of their protection against STIs. Of course, actual proper condom use is.... inconsistent at best for most people.
Anyhow, the easiest and least intrusive methods of BC are usually viewed with the most suspicion and disapproval from all sides, and Vasagel/RISUG is like... the most extreme example of that.
It is:
- relatively inexpensive
- extremely effective
- one-time clinic visit
- fully reversible, with no recovery period
- impossible to forget or accidentally nullify
Unfortunately none of these factors endear it to the capitalists, the puritans, or the public-health hand-wringers*
*To be clear, i support public health goals, but the AIDS crisis has put a strong and lasting emphasis/insistence that condoms are the only way
GreenKnight23 6 points a year ago
and also they're not 100%
Captainautism 2 points a year ago
They’re 100% of the doctors start doing them like they do at the vets office.
SatansMaggotyCumFart 21 points a year ago
Ok Musk.
DragonTypeWyvern 4 points a year ago
Pff that lazy fuck pays someone else to do the work for him like for everything else
SatansMaggotyCumFart 2 points a year ago
Someone else is going to run that turkey baster.
Captainautism 9 points a year ago
That’s quickly coming to an end.
A_Chilean_Cyborg 15 points a year ago
Condoms?
krooklochurm 14 points a year ago
If 2,430 ladies want to test this out then hmu
crapwittyname 11 points a year ago
I saw on Google that there are this many in your local area waiting to meet you.
Tangent5280 6 points a year ago
All crammed into a clown car
krooklochurm 2 points a year ago
I looked into this but the ads are a lie.
There are only 1,789 hot local women that want to meet me.
crapwittyname 2 points a year ago
Oh, yeah that's if you filter for the hot ones. My search included lukewarm to tepid ladies.
howrar 14 points a year ago
Let's say you save exactly one pill and it works on anyone. Also assume 100% pregnancy rate, so if you are paired with someone and neither have the pill, then it's an automatic pregnancy. Our goal is to minimize number of pregnancies.
- "Max promiscuity": Say we have a complete bipartite matching. if it's given to a male, then no pregnancies have been prevented since every other male can impregnate every female. If it's given to a female, then it reduces the number of pregnancies by 1 since none of the males can impregnate her.
- "Traditional": Say we have a bijective matching (i.e. each male is paired with exactly one female, and vice versa). Then the pill can be given to anyone and it will always reduce the number of pregnancies by 1.
- "The Harem": Say we have a matching where males have more than one pairing but females have at most one pairing each. In this case, giving the pill to the male with the largest number of pairings will reduce pregnancies by however many pairings they have.
- "Reverse Harem": Same scenario as above but flip male and female. Giving the pill to any female will have the same effect of reducing pregnancies by 1. Giving it to a male will have no effect.
- "The Cliques": The population is split into disjoint graphs, but each of these disjoint graphs are complete (bijective) bipartite graphs. In this case, if the pill is given to a male, then it will only have an effect if that male only has a single pairing, thereby reducing pregnancies by exactly 1. Otherwise, there will be no reduction in pregnancies. If given to a female, then it will always reduce pregnancies by exactly 1.
As far as I'm aware, the real world operates most like a mixture of "Traditional" and "Cliques". At least, in places where birth control is an option. But in the real world, we have more than one pill.
If we have enough for either all males or all females, then the effect is the same regardless of who gets the pill. It will always lead to 100% pregnancy reduction.
Let's say we have enough pills for all but one male, or all but one female.
- "Max promiscuity": If the pill is given to the males, then we still have one male that can impregnate everyone, so there will be no reduction in pregnancies. If given to females, then you will end up with exactly one pregnancy.
- "Traditional": As before, there's no difference. Any decision will lead to reducing pregnancies to exactly 1.
- "The Harem": giving to all the males except the one with the smallest number of pairings will reduce pregnancies to however many pairings that one male has (more than 1). If given to females, then it will reduce it to exactly 1.
- "Reverse Harem": Giving it to the males will reduce pregnancies to exactly 1 since they're only in 1 pairing. Giving it to females will also reduce it to exactly 1.
- "The Cliques": if given to the males, then it will only make a difference if there exists a clique with exactly one male. It will reduce pregnancies by the largest number of females in a clique with a single male. If given to females, then it always reduces pregnancies to exactly 1.
So with the goal of minimizing pregnancies, it either makes no difference or is optimal to have the pill on women (unless you're in a harem). This is highly reductive though. We have many other considerations when deciding who should get access to birth control.
iconic_admin 13 points a year ago
I’m pretty sure the birth control pill is for women because that was easy to do. A pill for men has been tried several times and they still don’t exist yet.
Trainguyrom 7 points a year ago
I tried 4 times in a 24 hour period once with a partner and we were both far too sore to finish the last time. Maybe if we did so more regularly we might have been able to do it but the flesh is weaker than the spirit a lot of times
davidagain 2 points a year ago
MrSulu, you stud! I heard that gay men get more sex, but that's a bold attempt. Does Brad know about this?!
davidagain 2 points a year ago
Me neither, MrSulu, me neither.
Bennyboybumberchums 0 points a year ago
The trick is not to cum. Then you can last all day.
Nomorereddit 13 points a year ago
She has no points
A) women are voluntarily driving 100% of demand for this drug B) if we could make it for guys, we would. C) if we did unplanned pregnancies would dry up and women's power/control of birth would change vastly for the first time in our biological history.
This screen shot is meaningless kindergarten thinking.
Nomorereddit 4 points a year ago
Been hearing that for 30 years. That and the rapture is tomorrow. And aliens coming the day after that.
echodot -1 points a year ago
That's not birth control that's just like having a vasectomy. The big power of birth control is that it works after the fact so if you wake up in the morning and you realise you've made a mistake, you have options.
Wilco 2 points a year ago
No, you are describing a morning after pill.
Also, the new male birth control stops sperm production after 3-4 weeks. Once the drug is stopped, they slowly go back to normal in a few months. That is nothing like a vasectomy.
mechoman444 12 points a year ago
Yeah, neat math, but biology isn't a group project where everyone gets an equal share. Female birth control exists because it's actually doable. One egg a month is easy to manage, shutting down millions of sperm without wrecking everything else? Not so much.
And every time male birth control does make it to trials, guys tap out the second they get a mood swing or a cramp. Meanwhile, women have been tanking those side effects for decades just to keep the rest of us from multiplying like rabbits.
So no, science didn't "target the wrong gender." It just went with the one that could handle it.
zaphod 13 points a year ago
And every time male birth control does make it to trials, guys tap out the second they get a mood swing or a cramp.
This is false, it's based on a single study and twists facts. Some participants dropped out because of side effects, but those not dropping out said they would actually continue using the pill if it were available. The study was stopped because one participant tried to kill himself.
mechoman444 8 points a year ago
No it wasn’t just one study. The 2016 WHO trial is just the one that got the headlines because it made for a catchy story. There were several other male birth control studies going back to the 80s and 90s where men dropped out because they didn’t want to deal with the side effects. Things like acne mood swings and injection pain.
In the WHO study around twenty out of three hundred twenty men quit over side effects. Earlier trials saw the same thing a few percent tapping out for the same reasons.
So no it wasn’t some isolated case. It’s been a recurring theme across decades of research. The numbers are small but it’s there. Pretending otherwise just tells me you stopped reading after the first article title.
kuhli 4 points a year ago
Earlier trials saw the same thing a few percent tapping out for the same reasons.
A fee percent is quite different from what you said earlier. Basically any trial has a few percent drop out.
zaphod 3 points a year ago
If you did a trial for a new pill for women you bet there will be some who will drop out because of side effects like acne or mood swings, that's expected to some degree. The thing with that trial for the male pill is, that people always twist it into sounding like the study was cancelled because of some people dropping out over these side effects, but it wasn't.
medgremlin -1 points a year ago
Then the just and equitable thing to do would be to shift some of that burden to men to make things easier for the women that aren't able to "tank" the side effects that can include some life-threatening complications.
I would also like to point out that the leading cause of death of pregnant people in America is intimate partner homicide, so the dangers of pregnancy can also be directly caused by the male partners. Y'all need to toughen the fuck up and get your shit together to do your damn part of preventing unwanted pregnancy and calling out the bad behavior of your peers that eventually escalates to things like rape or intimate partner homicide.
mechoman444 0 points a year ago
path: 0 20251313 20252586 20253698, hotness: undefined, score: 0, children: 1
medgremlin 5 points a year ago
Vasectomies are a great option, but there are a lot of folks who don't want a permanent birth control so they won't get a vasectomy.
init 16 points a year ago
Vasalgel/Risug(?) have shown promising results in tests in India iirc, but the last time I checked there was almost no momentum in getting it FDA approved. It is as far as I know, 100% effective and only required administrating once. The materials used to create it are cheaper than the syringe. Why is it not making more headway? Because it eliminates profits (like ongoing prescriptions would provide) for pharmaceuticals.
Slotos 8 points a year ago
I’ve been hoping for it to become widely available since first reading about it somewhere south of 2010. But I guess it would need to become easily manufacturable in local pharmacies for procedure to become widespread.
kameecoding 4 points a year ago
Last time I read about it had some issues, like the material stopped blocking way earlier than anticipated
khepri 10 points a year ago
If there was a reversible, drug-based intervention for males that prevented impregnation that shit would be given away for free on every street corner and it's universal availability guaranteed by Constitutional Amendment lol
BananaTrifleViolin 24 points a year ago
And Women wouldn't trust a man has taken it because, ultimately, they're the ones who become pregnant not men.
While companies have looked into male drug-based contraceptives, ultimately even if it were 100% effective, it would never beat female drug-based contraceptives. It'd have a market sure - but it wouldn't stop women taking birth-control because it'd remain the only way for them to be sure.
medgremlin 2 points a year ago
They've tried, but they can't get FDA approval because the men in the clinical trials aren't able to tolerate the side effects that pale in comparison to common side effects of hormonal birth control for women.
zaphod 3 points a year ago
They stopped that one trial because a participant tried to kill himself, not because of comparable side effects in the female pill, and that's basically the only real trial that was ever done with a larger number of participants.
medgremlin 4 points a year ago
Women and girls end up with suicidal ideation all the time when going through the trial and error process of finding the right hormone combination. There's dozens of different formulations of hormonal contraceptive pills and it can be extremely difficult to find the one that will work for you with the least amount of side effects.
The suicidal ideation is so common that it just gets lumped into the fast-forward list of side effects alongside the potential for life-threatening blood clots and other things.
CileTheSane 9 points a year ago
Condoms?
Pika 8 points a year ago
I'm actually waiting for male birth control pills so bad
They would give men more agency on reproduction, aside from vasectomy, which is permanent, and condoms, which can rip or be intentionally poked.
Also, they can be used in couples where a woman is hesitant to take pills herself, either out of reproductive concerns (fear that pills would make them permanently sterile), or the overall influence of hormones on the body and the menstrual cycle.
Tattorack 8 points a year ago
Excuse me, but birth control is not just a pill, it's the entire process that includes putting on a condom. And it's expected of guys to use condoms.
Besides that, there are pills and procedures a guy can do as birth control.
RememberTheApollo_ 8 points a year ago
Generic image of attractive woman with text meme.
I’m sure this is well thought through and factual.
MonkderVierte 7 points a year ago
The issue with pills for the man is, that he should still be able to get hard and produce (inactive) sperm, while for the woman it's relatively simple.
And trust issues, since the woman has the child then, if the man lied.
LemmyKnowsBest 7 points a year ago
She's giving that one man an awful lot of credit assuming he can shoot a bullseye 9 times a day 365 days a year.
Highlandcow 7 points a year ago
Well to be fair they are trying to make male protection pills
qaatloz 6 points a year ago
Not really...
On the biological level it is trying to stop millions of sperm-cells to sneak in or prevent one egg-cell from being available. In the numbers game it is less risky and more reliable to make the one cell unavailable then to try to prevent the millions from being viable. Even if you shut 99.99% of them down, you still have more risk than having 99.99% chance of preventing the one cell being available.
I'm afraid that however we want the world to be equal for man and women, the biology itself is unfair and needs a lot more time and research if you want to equalize that.
Or use the tie-off snipsnip solution. It is a bit more permanent, but is pretty reliable in preventing.
mavu 6 points a year ago
classic engineering mistake, trying to fix the problem where it occurs (baby popps out), instead of where it originates (baby gets put in). Can't be too mad at them for that. Everyone makes that mistake when they start out.
echodot 5 points a year ago
That's not how engineering works. That's like saying that you don't need gas release valves you just need to never over pressure the line. Now obviously the objective is to never over pressure the line, but it's good to have contingencies in place in case it happens.
You could equally say that you don't need to be on birth control if you just always use condom but sometimes they fail.
JackbyDev 1 point a year ago
Nah, engineering wise you can't verify if a man actually has taken a pill and the sad reality is that women get stuck with the child and abortion rights are under attack. It's like trying to implement authorization without any way to verify that the user is actually authorized. You can't just go on vibes alone.
daggermoon 6 points a year ago
I'ma get a vasectomy as soon as I can drive
doingthestuff 4 points a year ago
I have had a vasectomy, but I don't have sex anymore so is that a double negative and I'm about to birth millions of new lives?
WhatGodIsMadeOf 4 points a year ago
What is this weird ass template with the creepy people in the background?
AntiBullyRanger 4 points a year ago
s/science/pharma/
Nature is crueler with stillbirths, ectopic pregnancies, blood type incompatibility, autoimmunity killing, etc., etc..
finitebanjo 4 points a year ago
Technically, men's sperm takes some time between three days to two weeks as it travels up from the testees to the seminal vesicles, and before that it takes something like 72 days for sperm to be made in the testees via spermatogenesis (although this process is constant regardless of number of ejaculations), meaning that while technically a man could impregnate 9 women a day, realistically a man couldn't because after the first few their viable sperm count would drastically falter.
Gorilladrums 3 points a year ago
It's not rocket science, it's much easier to prevent one egg from being fertilized than to stop a hoard sperm from fertilizing..
Harbinger01173430 3 points a year ago
Can't females develop antibodies that destroy the sperm?
Evolutionary skill issue
livingcoder 2 points a year ago
Women still need access to birth control in order to remain autonomous, but this is a great point.
bigbabybilly 2 points a year ago
That’s why I got the chop. Firing blanks for the last year.
AnitaAmandaHuginskis 2 points a year ago
Lemmy is left but also male, according to the salty responses lol
matmarspace 1 point a year ago
I don't get it 🤔
FreddiesLantern 1 point a year ago
Alright men here’s what we do:
1: Once you had your kid(s), if you want to have them someday, get snipped. It’s no big deal and you’ll both be A LOT more relaxed.
2: Don’t be a fucking rapist.
Why tf are we talking about the pills thing.
Muscle_Meteor 0 points a year ago
Yeah too bad DNA tests were invented after birth control, almost as if all the consequences for either party's mistake landed on one of the two sex's involved..
whoisearth 0 points a year ago
It's in the name. Birth control
niktemadur -2 points a year ago
Brilliant!
Also, I'd like to see this brainiac figure out how to kill many million sperm instead of just one ovum, with a pill. Surely that should be easier, but there's an anti-woke male patriarchy conspiracy, amirite?
All you need is a white labcoat, goggles, some vials, a pocket calculator and clipboard and BOOM... Science, Bitch! Surely the "EUREKA!" moment should happen within a couple of months, but it is being kept from us! The male patriarchy is yadda yadda whatever... and here's an extra yadda for good measure!
Disclaimer: I had a vasectomy.
But still, this person is under-educated in the same school system that spits out maga-types on the opposite side of the political spectrum.
This is yet another symptom of the severe under-education that Carl Sagan warned us about in The Demon-Haunted World: Science As A Candle In The Dark. The kind of under-informed, holier-than-thou attitude that lets fascism through the front door, because...
bOtH pArTiEs ArE tHe SaMe LoL aMiRitE
The same fascists, religious batshit zealots and incels who want women OUT of schools, OUT of the workplace, they want them IN the kitchen, illiterate, barefoot and pregnant: "That should keep them under our thumb!"
EXACTLY like it happens now in places like Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia.
cyberpunk007 -2 points a year ago
Ok, at the end of the day women are the ones that get pregnant. If you're living a life of one night stands, who's more at risk? The woman who's on nothing, or the guy that's just like "uhhh ya, I'm on that".
Kind of a poor way of looking at it imo. Guard your house. Don't expect the predators to guard it.
1985MustangCobra -5 points a year ago
how about we just learn to pull out.
Pacattack57 -6 points a year ago
1: men do have birth control. 2: this is so Ironic because women hold the majority of if not ALL the control in terms of who they have sex with. Let alone who they allow to climax inside of them without a condom. In other words they chose the outcome. They allowed it. Not including rape and other SA scenarios.
hateisreality -6 points a year ago
she's right
curiousaur 2 points a year ago
False
Formfiller -8 points a year ago
The technology to make male birth control has been available for a long time but everything in our society is about subjugation and cruelty. That’s why we live in a rape culture run by pedofiles and rapists. It’s by design.
AquaTofana 8 points a year ago
I, as a pro-birth control/pro-choice lady, believe lady-oriented birth control has nothing to do with that (perhaps naiively).
Pregnancy, even the healthiest, safest ones, are hard on our bodies. That means that anything that prevents them is theoretically better than if we're constantly/repeatedly pregnant. Even if its harmful for mental health or long term effects on organs. Pregnancy fucks us up outright both mentally and physically. Like day one.
Obviously I'm simplyifying a bit, but you understand the gist of my logic.
Men dont have HAVE to deal with pregnancy, period, so anything that introduces harm, even minutely, is automatically a worse quality-of-life option for them.
Am I pro-male birth control? Hell yeah I am. I just recognize that they're giving up more than we would be to accept the same risks, given that they dont have to experience pregnancy to begin with, and I dont trust/expect them to do that.
Therefore, it makes logical sense to me that we're the ones targeted.
Rachelhazideas 7 points a year ago
Medical science is not that black and white.
Think about birth control in terms of preventing death and disfigurement. Men don't die from pregnancy, women do.
When women take birth control, it has the upside of not dying in pregnancy, having horrific pain in the process, or permanent changes to their body. Birth control has a lot of side effects, but at the end of the day, the maternal mortality rate of women who take birth control is far lower.
The reason why medical trials for male birth has been put on hold before, is because when weighing the side effects vs benefits of male birth control, men did not have to weight against death and suffering through pregnancy. Thus, the justification for male birth control requires a much higher bar.
While discrimination against women is prevalent in medicine, this isn't as simple as an instance of dismissing male birth control because men didn't like it. The process through which new modern medicines are vetted requires comparing the positive and negative outcomes of a medication, and that doesn't necessarily take gender dynamics into account.
Formfiller -11 points a year ago
They should have both been available a long time ago. Thanks for proving my point by defending sexism and rape culture and I’m sure you’re one of the “good ones “ https://www.pbs.org/...
echodot 11 points a year ago
The fact that you think that that response was defending sexism rather proves that you are not arguing from a point of good faith.
No one is saying sexism doesn't exist, but that's not the point being argued here.
Formfiller -12 points a year ago
I find your explanations of common sense things to be condescending and pointless. I’d rather not continue this conversation because it’s not productive and I don’t really find your logic relevant to what I had to say in the first place
kuhli 9 points a year ago
I'd suggest actually reading the article you're providing as a source:
Comparing the discontinued men’s study to what we know — or don’t know — about how hormonal contraception affect women isn’t really feasible, experts said.
There’s still research underway to develop a hormonal option, Colvard noted. And many researchers said this trial provides potentially helpful insight.
Also encouraging: the fact that so many men said they would take the drug if it were available. Historically, the burden of controlling pregnancy has fallen on women, Breuner said. But now, the findings here show that may be shifting — and could in fact spur more interest on the part of drug developers.
Rachelhazideas 1 point a year ago
Arguments like yours are hurting, not helping, women's advocacy in modern medicine.
When you throw out all nuance, it opens the door for misogynists to dismiss every valid concern that women have when it comes to systemic discrimination in medicine. You are also alienating men who support male birth control in the process.
As someone who has had life threatening issues dismissed by doctors, been gaslit about the efficacy of my medications, berated for going to the ER when my doctor instructed me to, gone through an excruciating IUD insertion, trust me when I say I am the last person to defend sexism in medicine.
However, male birth control isn't as that simple of an issue. There are legitimate scientific barriers to developing male birth control. It doesn't erode away the slow pace and funding in developing male birth control that is made worse by sexism, but sexism isn't the full story.
buddascrayon -11 points a year ago
I've been saying it for years. We should stop any and all funding for erectile dysfunction. Best birth control in the world is for men to stop being able get erections.
kameecoding 7 points a year ago
What is wrong with you?
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That's because hormonal birth control for women takes advantage of existing biological processes to prevent pregnancy.
Men don't have any known biological processes that can be utilized like that, although it's been consistently studied for decades.
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