In 2022, the American Medical Association called for a permanent end to Daylight Savings Time, citing negative effects on health
7 months ago by pimento64 to c/mildlyinteresting
I hope everyone who wants to be on permanent DST experiences an eternity of the first day of spring forward, never rested again
It’s also dependent on where you live. Someone living on the easternmost part of a time zone is going to tend to want DST over standard as compared to someone living on the westernmost part. I live in the easternmost part of the Eastern US time zone and I’d pick DST if I had the choice.
Tbf, 5:00 sunset on standard time is not ideal for me either. But a lot more acceptable than having to suddenly adjust sleep because capitalists want to make more money.
Arizona is used to it. When I drove through in July I swear the sun es already high at 4
You get used it it. Somehow the majority of the world where DST isn't observed has no problem with an earlier sunrise. Makes it easier to be a "morning" person, if anything.
"East Coast" doesn't provide enough information. If you look at a map of America and draw a straight line south from the western end of Massachusetts, it doesn't really touch another state at all, just the ocean. What really needs to happen is that the Northeast needs to be in a different time zone, and then we stick to standard time. But as it is now, it really sucks being in EST in the winter in the northeast, which is why so many of us prefer permanent DST, when given the choice without the option of being in a different time zone.
I'm sure everyone's bosses will be accommodating
Abolish bosses
Fun fact: in the mid '70s the US attempted to go to full year daylight savings time. It was so hated by everyone that we switched back to switching our clocks after very few years
Go into detail about what the problems were and why everyone hated it.
People with school aged children were upset that their children were leaving for school in the dark.
People had more accidents in the morning (but accidents in the afternoon and evening hours decreased, especially pedestrian fatalities.
They didn't even try it out for a prolonged period of time and a lot of that had to do with the Watergate scandal and the Nixon presidency.
Also the health benefits of switching to Standard time and doing away with DST would work with permanent DST too. The major health problems that are caused by the current model have to do with altering the bodies internal clock, and you get the benefits of not having to change regardless of whether we choose permant Standard time or permanent DST.
For reference purposes, car accidents spike significantly after DST ends, not just when it starts.
I think the main issue with their attempt in the 70's is that they didn't try to change the hours of school and work to make things more workable. We didn't do that because it would have forced major industries to shift things and that seemed like too much work.
This would make things safer in general and fix sleep deprevation and other sleep related maladies in the vast majority of people who aren't morning people.
And having more natural light during the waking hours decreases the amount of electricity used, can decrease heating and cooling bills, etc.
People complain about the idea (either moving permanent to standard time or morning permanently to DST) literally based on vibes. Nobody seems to give it a chance with actual changes to make it work for any length of time.
I'm also going to point out that a lot of the problem full stop is that Americans just do not have significant amounts of free time.
I wasn't actually alive at the time, thanks for those details! I didn't know why they hated it, just that they must have to have switched back so fast.
Yeah, I also wasn't alive (I know most of it from my parents and the internet, but I've also had this conversation on the other place before.
I get the reasons why people like one or the other. I wake up at 3 am for work 5 days a week and I work 10 hour days so my feelings on the matter will be skewed no matter what, but it always seems like a majority of people want to go to standard DST when it's a hypothetical and there's not a good general consensus for why they switch back if it is tried.
I believe Mexico (might be another South American country), did have it and they swapped back due to the "health benefits" but it seems like a lot of the studies around day lights savings time as a whole are relying on supposition and don't have a long term study for the actual effects.
Some studies show more car accidents, some show less, some show nuance. some studies show better or more economical use of utilities like water and rlectro, some show the opposite, or that there is no change.
Some studies show health benefits but those studies assume we don't change sleeping schedules and so on to accommodate/ take advantage of more light, and often the health detriments are based on swapping back and forth twice a year.
Most of this comment I made after reading more articles on it rather than going off memory from the last time I had this conversation, and so what I say here may not necessarily match up with what's in the original comment.
If I remember I'll try to go back up and change that comment to better reflect the new info.
Because a single news story about a single child being hit by a car on the walk to school was blown out of proportion and played on everyone's fears. Kids don't walk to school anymore.
Well if it is in the afternoon then you are seeing them walk home from school.
You are passing what's called "an anecdotal argument".
my wife and i only have one car because y'know poverty and i drive her to and from work once or twice a week because it's nice. we're going to start calling any pedestrian children Geese now because of you I love it.
Permanent DST would be so stupid.
What is "noon" or "solar noon" under DST? Solar noon is supposed to be the time when the sun is at its peak. AM and PM come from ante meridiem and post meridiem, which are basically "before the sun's peak" and "after the sun's peak". But, under DST the peak is at approx 1pm. So, will saying "I'll meet you at noon" still mean 12pm? Probably, but then "solar noon" will be 1pm but "noon" will be 12am?
If the whole reason behind considering permanent DST that they think the 9-5 schedule of office life is impossible to change? This just reminds me of bad software projects where office politics and middle manager interference meant that rather than fixing the root cause, it was easier just to add tech debt.
This just reminds me of bad software projects where office politics and middle manager interference meant that rather than fixing the root cause, it was easier just to add tech debt.
That's why we have been continuing to change clocks twice a year, because apparently that's easier than changing the time children go to school.
If you're only argument is "the sun should be directly up at noon" then we are going to need a lot more time zones.
No, let's do away with all time zones, everyone's on GMT. Noon stops meaning 12:00 and just means when the sun is directly up in your time zone.
If that means for you noon is 2AM, you start work at 11PM and are off at 7AM, usually going to bed at 1PM when it's well and dark out so be it. You don't have to change your clock when you travel, places just say "Local noon is 8PM".
Yeah, arguing definitions vs what's actually practical is a new one for me in the DST discussion. Just goes to show you that people would rather appear right than do what's useful.
Non-starter, according to DST sickos they need that extra hour of daylight to be at a higher number on the clock because of all the stuff they do. As if they weren't sitting on their asses on the couch 99% of the time either way.
They could just say school and business hour is at 8 instead of 9 from an arbitrary date and have the same effect.
Then get up an hour earlier. I personally can't relate to feeling depressed because it's dark out, like a bird having a blanket put over its cage, but I do enjoy the longer, cooler evenings with less UV.
If only there was a standard.
This is the way.
Step one: agree that fucking with the clocks is really stupid and codify it into law
Step two: start arguing about which time zone is the “right one”
If you try to do both at the same time, step two prevents both
No! Split the difference the other way! Make us jump two hours! Show us all how detrimental daylight savings is! Burn motherfucking greenwich to the ground! Or at least let me get some sleep!
Oh my state passed a law abolishing it but the federal government stopped it. You want to know why? You want to know the stupid reason why the federal government won't abolish daylight savings? Because polling indicates that half of the people want it gone forever and everybody else wants it there forever.
They literally can't decide whether to always have the clock one way or the other, so we get to split the difference. I don't fucking care. Just pick one and stick with it. Everybody has electric lights anyway, it's the 21st century, we need to move on from this 1700s bullshit.
I'd settle for the half hour
Exactly, most of us don't care but there are jobs where it matters, so go with what's best for them. Construction maybe? Either way, we don't need majority opinion here.
Then change the hours of the jobs, not the clocks.
That fucks with everything else though, eg childcare.
Great, with scientific evidence backing this we are fucked for ever getting this changed. What we really need is a rising passively racist influencer to get behind the idea to get any support in 2026.
Yep, we'll probably increase it to 6x a year in retaliation for those eggheads trying to tell us what to do. That'll show'em.
Better yet hopefully we can get a child rapist or two to support ending dst then Trump will mandate it via executive order
I've also heard from a very reliable source that when children have their sleep disrupted by an hour they are more likely to turn gay.
I honestly don't care if we choose permanent standard time or DST. Either one would be better than having to switch twice a year. I'll even propose a compromise: we can try one for a year, try the other for the next year, and see which one works better.
Not doing either because we can't agree on which one should be permanent seems like the worst option.
I say we just split the middle. Change the clock by 30 minutes instead of an hour and then just keep it there.
I live so far up north that in the winter the sun rises around noon and sets two hours later.
I literally could not care less which time zone I’m in, the position of the sun has zero effect on my life.
We really should just move to permanent standard time, and judging by some of the opinions to the contrary that I'm seeing in this thread, everyone who hates that should either be given a dispensation to move their work shift and bed time back an hour or be placed on a psychiatric hold.
everyone who hates that should either be given a dispensation to move their work shift and bed time back an hour or be placed on a psychiatric hold.
Isn't the reverse just as true for people who hate being on DST permanently?
I've never seen your face but I'm guessing it's extremely punchable
Make daylight great again
Who makes money off of Daylight Savings Time?
I don't know, but I know someone is making a fortune off of it somehow and I want to know who. It's the only explanation
The real question is, how can the rich make money off of changing this? As soon as someone figures that out, I'm sure it will change.
ughh, I lost an hour of pay working as a security guard to this kind of thinking a while back.
"Oh, we'll just make up for it in 6 months."
Who give a shits?
Intentionally, to bother people who are persnicks about it
Pedants, not persnicks.
No, persnicks. You know how you're behaving.
Just changing it to noun form, you have a savings account not saving account. Coupons bring you savings on purchases.
We pretty much just use the word saving for computer files, healthcare when saving a life, and fictional heroes. I guess most people don't think of it as an action to save daylight.
RFK Jr recommends sun lamps during the non-savings hours. Particularly on the arsehole.
We should just turn our clocks back to 2019.
As someone who hangs out online with people who don't do DST, it's really annoying to have to re-learn each-other's schedules twice a year. Although that's nowhere near as bad as when I lived in a country with DST and worked with people in the southern hemisphere who also did DST. It would mean that at some times of the year, 9am for us was 5pm for them, so a short meeting was fine. But, other times 9am was 7pm. And then there were the weeks where 9am was 6pm because one side had gone DST and the other side hadn't yet ended it.
Even worse, the logs system at the company timestamped everything in silicon valley wall-clock time, so there were 3 different time zones at play, which all changed at different times.
Really, I think eventually we'll all be on some kind of global time system. So, if I say the meeting is at stardate 1230.2 nobody has to convert to their own local clock.
That sounds like the talk of a morning person. Bastard. Where'd you find them?
We can't help being this way
bring me coffee and all is forgiven
honestly i only see dawn from the wrong end these days. sleep deprivation sucks
The research is in, permanent standard time is healthier.
Edit for the doubters
sleep experts say that standard time (which shifts daylight hours earlier in the morning) aligns best with human circadian biology.
They are morons. Because the day didn't change, only the marker did. So stupid.
The sleep "experts". Complete bullshit. They could say changing the time causes an issue, but this shift daylight earlier is complete bullshit.
- Because daylight is constantly changing. Millions of people will get nearly an hour more daylight this month alone, because thats the way the earth works. It is rapid increase in the spring, and rapid decrease in the fall.
- Time is artificial. Call it 3 in morning, call it 10 in the morning. It doesn't matter. A person can get up when ever they want. Their rhythm can dictate it, not the clock.
Morons.
Pick one or the other, but don't change the time. Either choice is equally as good, there is NO difference.
How can anyone not love a long walk as the sun rises? Dawn is excellent and it's only rival for best time is dusk.
I want us to go in the direction Canada is going with that. It should be the same time in Washington and Oregon that it is in BC
Canada uses metric time though, I think. So, that wouldn't work.
Nah they're only half metricated. They use metric kilometers, but imperial hours, this creates the uniquely Canadian variant of kph
Today has been the absolute worst. Daylight savings shift coinciding with my job becoming absolute trash and my idiotic self doing a Sunday funday yesterday.
It’s pretty obvious the American government doesn’t care about its citizens health. Sick citizens = more shareholder profits for their scam corporations
We have been changing the time for 70+ years. Nothing about it is Willy nilly. There is a reason. The reason may invalid at this point.
This same bullshit could be said about jetlag simply moving to a different time zone has worse effects than a single hour shift, yet many people do it 10s if not hundreds of times a year.
It's so stupid to argue about this whole thing from a health perspective and using that as if its some kind of disease.
So stupid
Seems like the only experience you have with children is physically and sexually abusing them.
I don't even sexually abuse your mom, even though she blows up my phone begging me to. You can stop following me around now, take your crashout and handle it with stoic silence befitting a le epic atheist sci[ent]ist
There's a lot of things that I don't like about Arizona but the abolishment of moving to and from DST has been such a great thing to have.
This again.
It's like this comes up every 6 months. Good thing we have a robust economy and world peace so we can fuck around with subjects like this.
Go on
Having the sun come up at 5 am and go down at 5 pm in the summer is my nightmare. Why on earth would we rather change 9 months instead of 3??? Fuck permanent standard time. I would rather keep changing.
Edit: I’ve said it before and the replies I am getting are only reinforcing my belief; morning people are an oppressive class.
That’s barely different and doesn’t change the first part of what I said.
Only in the weeks surrounding the Solstice. Summer is three months long.
Yeah, but it's disingenuous to call the equinox summer. By late August the days are getting noticeably shorter.
It’s not disingenuous to call summer time summer. Summer this year ends August 31st.
The sun goes up and down at the same time, nothing changes except the stupid marker they should leave alone.
But for some reason people freak out if you suggest we just start things later in December. See the other commenter who said I could just get up earlier…
I have been to so many places that choose to do this. Winter hours can be a thing!
- That’s a two way street.
- Actually I am.
Saving
Well that was a non article.
Committing to standard time has health benefits and allows us to end the biannual tug of war between our biological and alarm clocks,” said AMA Trustee Alexander Ding, M.D., M.A, MBA.
So are they saying committing to standard time, or simply committing to a single time?
If they are saying Standard is better that Daylight Savings, then they are complete morons. And it isnt because I like one over the other. The fact is IT DOESNT FUCKING MATTER. Just pick one.
Daylight is constantly changing, depending on what latitude you are in. In the northern hemisphere millions of people will gain over an hour of daylight this month alone. Your rhythms are effected by people fucking with the clock, and that is it.
Standard is better than advanced, which is better than switching.
A sensational story sabbatoged it.
Every time the time switches there's a spike in car accidents, heart attacks, etc. Also, time should just be constant imo, arbitrarily shifting it an hour twice a year seems stupid to me.
ITT: People absolutely convinced "their" side of the hour is the Only Correct Choice, and can't understand why people who prefer the "other" side of the hour can't just adjust their schedule to compensate.
They have no vision!
We have the technology now to make DST a sliding scale so that the sun sets at 9PM every day.
Listen not to the nay-sayers! "Waaah, it is not good to eat lunch in the dark before sunrise!" Not with that attitude, mister!
The Romans had that technology too, the day was split into 12 hours of sunlight and 12 hours of night, no matter the time of year
Nah. Sunrise at 6.
My friends dad died of a heart attack like 2 days we sprang forward for daylight savings time. Apparently there is a statistical correlation with increased heart attacks during this time likely due to the lost hour of sleep. I'm sure he would have eventually died of a heart attack because of his lifestyle, but I'm quite convinced it was a part of what caused it to happen on that day.
You know they understand parents. Also it messes with my sleep
Who could be for keeping that around?
some people (not me) complain about the sun going down at 4pm.
People in the Nordic countries have it way worse. There's no excuse.
It's not like it's the same time for waking up, going to bed, or shops opening for everyone across the world.
If you still need a heads-up about when things are happening when you travel, we may as well just make time UTC globally.
Sune goes down at 4pm? Just wake up and go to work early.
Fuck that. Keep daylight savings time and end standard time. I like my daylight when I can actually use it; after work.
Making everyone wake up an hour earlier is abusive
We're in daylight savings time now, let's just stay there. That way no one's schedule has to change again.
The AMA is concerned with disruptions to circadian rhythms due to time changes. If we stick to daylight savings time there won't be any more time changes.
The Illuminati rock band?
Jetlag time.
I'm so tired of listening to this. Twice a year for my entire life. Let it go people
Yeah, quit trying to fix things! Leave shitty decisions from the past alone!
I agree with you. I actually like the change. Not a fan of Bush 2 lengthening DST since it gets out of sync with other countries.
Glad you like it bitch.
- with love the people that are about to die at the next change in your honor.
WTF?!?
D'oh!
@lemmy.world
This is for strictly mildly interesting material. If it's too interesting, it doesn't belong. If it's not interesting, it doesn't belong.
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@lemmy.world
This is for strictly mildly interesting material. If it's too interesting, it doesn't belong. If it's not interesting, it doesn't belong.
This is obviously an objective criteria, so the mods are always right. Or maybe mildly right? Ahh.. what do we know?
Just post some stuff and don't spam.
go to feed...
Daylight Saving Time just needs to be completely eradicated, it makes no sense in the modern day. The problem is that you have this disagreement over "which" time should be the default, either standard time or daylight time (which Canada/the US spend more of the year in than not).
IMO it should just be standard time, emphasis on the word "standard". If you want more daylight hours in the evening for events and such, just start things an hour earlier.
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