There's a book where a bunch of people who have terminal illnesses form a kind of terror cell to suicide bomb health care boards to force the system to change. I'm almost surprised it hasn't happened yet.

In a country where guns are famously accessible.

It's just a symptom of the fucked up system we're in. Something like >70% of the americans want universal healthcare. Having a representative instead of a direct democracy already neuters the population's power, and then you throw in everything else like the first-past-the-post system that ensures two parties, and rich fucks controlling both parties easily, and thus both parties having no incentive to meaningfully help the population, and so on and so forth ad nauseam.

Blaming the population as a whole is accurate, but also denying the way the system is set up.

Universal healthcare was never on the ballot.

Over 90% of Democrats, 50% of independents, and even 30% of Republicans want universal healthcare. (check your favorite poll there are many).

The citizens of the USA have constantly, democratically, and collectively voted FOR universal healthcare, repeatedly, in the only ways they can legally do so.

If our system was democratic, we'd have universal healthcare already. Unfortunately, it's not.

Democratic leadership has ignored 90% of their own registered voters (and the 30% Rs and 50% independents).... just as they ignore 70% support for higher minimum wages. Republicans also ignore their own constituents.

Anyway, massive public support for universal healthcare, higher minimum wage, ending support of Israel, and so on. There's nothing democratic or collective about any of this. Open your eyes.

If you have a skilled occupation, it's easy. Just leave. There are cars, buses and planes that easily can you take to another country. Even if you're unskilled, you could find a entry job and work your way up from there. It is best to get a visa to live somewhere else first but it can be done retrospectivly and nobody else treats you like a criminal like ICE does. There is nothing stopping you except yourself - I say this as someone who has lived in multiple different countries around the world (not one just next to each other either a la Europe) - many USians say they should leave and they never do. It'll literally be the best thing you do to make your life better.

Edit: I don't care about the downvotes. If "aww...but meemah will miss me" is a problem then stay there. I don't care. You make your own bed. If you actually want a better life, you'd find a way. Don't bitch about it if you've got no desire to actually fix your life.

And I do realise this is a form of privilege. I was brought up in a stable home which allowed me to go my own way. And the privalege to say to my parents, sorry, I'm leaving you to fend for yourself as I need something better for my family. It was hard. They haven't been prouder of me that I was willing to abandon them. To them, they'd done their job and raised a child willing to fight for what they needed to live. What was better is that I was able to bring them out to join me and they enjoyed the better life too.

Genuine question…can you outline how the US health model has been exported? What countries do you have in mind?

I’m in Europe and all countries have free health care (or charge a nominal amount - eg, GP visit).

Some countries, like UK and Ireland have a dual model; universal care but also a private insurance model.

Can you give me an example of a medically necessary coverage that is denied by the government?

Careful,

That sounds a lot like the world would be better if we all worked together to improve things for everyone, regardless of their station in life...

The concept of profits is grotesque

/thread

I have so many ideas for cool software that I could easily develop by myself and publish for free. Unfortunately I have to eat stuff and live at places.

The capitalism being a zero sum game at it's core is just vile.

Health care is especially terrible as a "market" because it doesn't work like other markets.

For example, if you have a 50% chance at something costing $100 happening, you'll probably make sure to have $100 available. If it's a 20% chance you probably have a plan, just in case. But, what if it's a 0.1% chance of something costing $100,000 you might take a gamble and not even bother with insurance. If you do get insurance, how do you calculate what is a reasonable price for that insurance? An extremely rare chance at an extremely expensive thing isn't the kind of calculation people do when they're shopping. The result, of course, is a lot of medical bankruptcies -- a phrase that simply doesn't exist in most countries.

Then there's the ridiculous idea of trying to shop around for health care. If you're having a heart attack, are you going to check to see which hospital has the best rates? Are you going to look up ambulance services online to see which one has the highest reviews? Even if it's something that isn't urgent, are you really capable of spending your money wisely to figure out which hospital offers the best price to performance ratio for a condition you can't pronounce, let alone understand? Markets only work when the shopper is informed, and it's very hard to be an expert on health care without being a health care professional (and even then, you might only really know your own specialty).

In addition, when you mix in preventative care, health insurance gets complicated. If you're healthier, you don't need as much insurance, which hurts the profits of insurance companies. On the other hand, once you do have insurance, they want to keep your premiums high without using their coverage, so they want you to live healthy... but not so much that you change or cancel your insurance. When health care is provided by the government, it's much simpler. It's best to keep everybody healthy and do as much preventative care as possible.

Finally, there's the issue of externalizing costs. If someone doesn't get insurance, they don't get left to die on the street. They get taken to a hospital and they get treated. Often, they're presented with a bill after that, which then can result in a medical bankruptcy. Who is ultimately on the hook? Taxpayers. It's just that responsible people who are able to afford medical insurance pay for their own care, but then through their taxes they also pay for health care for people who don't / can't get insurance. And, even though it's not financial, there's also the externalized cost of not getting treated.

Say you live in a city like NYC where everybody takes public transit. You really want to make sure that everyone else there showers, avoids too many perfumes, and doesn't take the train when they have a contagious illness! If someone doesn't have health insurance, so they can't go to the doctor when they get a cold, the flu or some kind of flesh-eating bacteria, they're much more likely to be on the train with that untreated illness with everyone else. In addition, things like a pandemic are much more likely to spread if someone can't afford to go to a doctor when they get sick. You're more likely to need health care in a country without universal health care simply because you're around people who don't have health care and might pass whatever they have to you.

Most economists agree that maybe a market is a great way to generate efficiency for things like pencils and tee shirts, but it's just not suitable for healthcare.

so did the Wermacht.

And most people can sympathize with the low level workers at the actual physical location, while the ceo and others at the top aren't necessarily easy to track and find.

I'd be curious to hear what the 'acceptable targets' are from people who casually talk about what they would do if they were in the situation described. I know I would hesitate at every single one. It's too easy to imagine how someone has been fucked over by our society's system, and the pain it will cause for them to die. Doesn't even matter if it's a rich fuck bastard like the asshole with two kids and an estranged wife that was popped the first time uhc got its teetee slapped.

Everyone, even evil people, have kids. Their kids will probably grow up to be evil so what is your point exactly?

Good point! Everyone start making contingency plans now!

Find the biggest investor, and name them CEO.

Pavlov's gun

Rapists and child molesters don't kill anyone either.

Luigi caused a wave of insurance companies to pause killing people for profit for a moment.

Nothing else has ever come close so far.

"Nothing changed."

Killing Brian Thompson had a real, if temporary, effect. They denied fewer claims.

And the shooting of that CEO made health insurance panic to the point that they approved almost every request for care for the first time ever.

There are literally thousands, if not tens of thousands, that are alive today, thanks to the industries panic response to that shooting leading to mass approvals.

Single Payer/Medicare for all is the ideal, but until we get there.. there is a clear mechanism to make the system better and act in the interests of patients.

Ah, so, do many Luigis!

Insurance companies pay exorbitant amounts of money to tell politicians that single payer insurance isn’t a feasible option.

Insurance companies lose a lot of money when they have to hire a new CEO because the other one died.

For several months after the UHC CEO was shot, cases were denied significantly less often and were handled much faster than usual. This cost the insurance companies money too.

In other words, if you’d like your vote for single-payer insurance to ever be heard, you have to quit down the really loud insurance companies and the only way to do that is to burn their pockets.

If 1 Luigi doesn't work, 10 might do the job. Gotta throw enough at it for change to be permanent

let me emphasize here: killing people is wrong, even when the people are health care CEOs

Hard disagree. It's wrong EXCEPT for them and others in their club. In their cases it is a moral imperative that all of us should be called to fulfill by our basic humanity.

You don't know that we won't get universal health care by shooting the CEOs of health care companies.

This is just virtue signaling for capitalism and it's fucking lame.

If we oppose terrorist acts, it is only because individual revenge does not satisfy us. The account we have to settle with the capitalist system is too great to be presented to some functionary called a minister. To learn to see all the crimes against humanity, all the indignities to which the human body and spirit are subjected, as the twisted outgrowths and expressions of the existing social system, in order to direct all our energies into a collective struggle against this system—that is the direction in which the burning desire for revenge can find its highest moral satisfaction.

but we haven't tried yet

One healthcare CEO is dead. UHC promptly replaces him and the system goes on as usual.

This is what Luigi did not know, it is near impossible to go after a corporation because its a machine with legal personhood!

I like how your response was sensible but got downvoted so much lol Every one calls for a Luigi but no one wants be a Luigi

Besides, he was with me at my house when he was killing that guy

Those institutional investors also have CEOs that probably love the taste of bullets in the morning.

Greedy old fucks are the reason we are in this mess.

They're too busy pulling the ladder up behind them

___

it seems to be a generational thing. that generation which is old now isnt radicalized like some of the younger folks will be by that age.

Trump is only a figurehead to who is really running the show. You know it's not that moron doing anything. He couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag

True. 🇺🇲 is a scam. Sometimes its better to be a little on the side of broke and qualify for financial assistance. That way your ER visit will only be $300 (including drugs 💊)

You forgot to add that the reason this is so is because, in cahoots with the insurance companies, hospitals and medical centers have jacked their prices up several times over in order to justify the existence of insurance.

I know someone who refuses to buy insurance and insists on negotiating with the hospital. He is an attorney so maybe they are afraid he will sue them.

Only when Obama was in office. But for some people paying the fine was cheaper.

Actually, the fine was cheaper. It was only like $90 for the whole effing year! Monthly premiums for insurance are way more than $90

So yeah, O-bummer was kinda stupid in that descision

Very smart. Why be stuck skipping your life so you can make someone else richer?

worked for someone i know.