Almost nobody is willing to buy one

repairability enthusiasts have bought Framework laptops in the hundreds of thousands

Pick a lane there, XDA...

I'm increasingly comfortable being in n the almost nobody category. You should be too, after all almost nobody uses Lemmy.

I want one real, real bad. But buying anything with RAM and SSDs in it right now is off the table.

I also want a Steam Machine and an AM5 based desktop. Also not gonna happen.

The article is clanker slop. It's mostly reiterative, a clear sign of clanker slop. Clankers are reiterative in their slop. A lot of clanker slop is reiterative.

I think they're just too expensive. It might be worth it in the long run, but a lot of people can't justify the up front cost.

Yes, pretend it's something wrong with the right idea (a repairable /upgradable device) and not the fact that America took a giant, wet trump all over the entire economy and a combo meal at mcdonalds is $16 with a small, non-refillabke drink and everything else is exponentially fucked from there.

Give us a reasonable pre-trump PC market, with this being a slight premium above that, do projections to normalize cost of ownership over say 10 years and it would grow. But we live here, so no.

So it's not serving the bottom-feeder market for effectively disposable Windows laptops.

Why should it need to? Serving a niche interest is perfectly valid as long as you're making enough money at it to be self-supporting. Despite what the line-go-up-at-all-costs advocates think.

motherfuckers acting like those laptops aren't five hundred bajillion dollars

I* want* to buy one. But:

• I'm mid cycle with my last laptop; and
• who the hell can afford to buy RAM for a new system these days?!?!

I have a framework 13. Last week I noticed my battery had gone spicy pillow. Screwed it open, removed the battery and ordered a new one. A few days later I got the new battery, put it in and screwed everything back together. Took me less than 30 minutes in total, got original parts and not some sketchy Amazon crap, was less complicated than repairing my desktop PC. This is how you do repairable tech.

Honestly if the average person can’t buy it at Best Buy or Target, they won’t. Most people don’t know about this stuff.

Wherever a random coworker or family member asks me which of two laptops to buy, it’s always between a couple of prebuilt machine at a big box retailer.

I love the idea of Framework myself, but I can’t afford to buy one.

Too niche for the average buyer, too expensive for the rest of us.

This is rage bait

They are expensive up front. I have one of the first 11th generation Intel ones. I bought a new CPU fan last year instead of getting a new laptop. One of my kids dropped it, and I'll need a new screen for it here soon.

Instead of buying 3 laptops, I bought 1 and repaired it. Super worth it.

I own one 🤷‍♂️ they’re expensive but I’d recommend em nonetheless

Who would have thought a more expensive, more premium product would have a hard time finding customers during a time when people are struggling to pay bills and cant even afford the non-existent dollar menu at mcdonalds anymore.

I wanted to buy one, but they are veeery expensive, almost twice for a similarly specd laptop. Plus thet don't offer OLED screens.

I like the idea of owning one. Then I see the prices and I compare them with the prices of refurbished ThinkPads... (No, I don't need a new laptop)

Well, supporting DHH doesn't really help their case either...

I was considering a framework but realized i didn't need a laptop. lol

Would like one, though!

I haven't needed to buy a laptop since the company existed. If I did they'd be a strong contender

Real talk. I fixed laptops for years. I'm not sure that I can justify the price with these.

A nucish box and portable monitor is cheaper.

I'm real interested in this as I'm currently shopping.

Just want to say, I bought a framework 13 and it's fantastic. Been running arch off of it for two years and it's been a workhorse.

It was expensive comparable to a similar specced PC at the time but I make enough to vote with my wallet so that's what I did. I think anyone who has the money but doesn't, simply because there's a better deal that's worse for the environment and the makers of the item, while holding a right to repair or anti-corporate mindset are hypocritical at best.

The world gets better if we make it that way, and I see buying a framework (if you have the extra money) as a small step in a better direction.

Can anyone educate me on this? What happens if the company goes bust? Can I still swap the CPU and GPU on it, or am I entirely relying on parts made by Framework?

I've swapped the Main board and WiFi chip in a framework laptop. Swap the ports regularly. It can have a few quirks to get used to. It is wildly worthwhile to me now that Dell has decided nothing can be repaired anymore. Those who say they take care of their laptop likely do try and one should but it is survivorship bias imho. Accidents happen unintentionally that is why they are called accidents.

Spent over two decades repairing laptops... I'm unlikely to purchase anything but framework for years going forward. Now if we could just get the framework printer :P The upfront cost is high they are still a small manufacturer. The long term value is working out well for me.

Framework is great, but it's just so insanely expensive.

I was buying a new laptop about 2 years ago. A framework one cost more than twice the price of a regular ultrabook with comparable (but better) specs.

Sure, you pay more for a Framework, and you can upgrade it later instead of buying a new laptop. Makes sense, but even then - a Framework one is more expensive than 2 laptops with similar specs. It only gets cheaper on the third upgrade. Which for me may be 10 years away.

Personally I'm not thrilled about investing in a laptop that will pay off in a decade. Who knows what laptops will be like by that time. Hell, it's not unconceivable that devices like Framework will be outlawed. Or that Framework goes out of business.

It might make sense for people who upgrade often, but I don't. Or for people who don't, but are wealthy enough to pay the premium anyway. If anything, I feel like having a Framework would make me want to upgrade more often, which would be a waste of money.

I know a lawyer who just ordered one.

He's got disposable income, he wants a decent windows based laptop for his work, he liked the repairability angle.

This isn't for just tech enthusiasts.

I can't afford that kind of money on a laptop!

I'm a Linux nerd FFS... I've never owned a new laptop in my life!

If I were god king of (USA/Europe/Asia...the Universe), I would subsidize repairable laptops. It would save resources in the long run, for both humanity and the planet.

I literally found out about these today. If the price isn't astronomical, and they have a model that suits my needs, I'll look into purchasing one

speaking of Framework. did anything turn out of their "big tent" approach as they were saying it? was there any continuation of that thing?

for those who have no idea, there was some controversy around Framework when they were collaborating with omarchy and its founder of some specific beliefs

I was looking for a new laptop recently and considered framework, exactly because of repairability/upgradeability. They are just too expensive for what you get, buying used enterprise model is a lot more economical and powerful. I ended with thinkpad p1 gen 5 that was essentially new with 64 RAM, rtx 3080 ti laptop for ~$1100. And you can replace everything easily but the motherboard.

My Thinkpad X1 Carbon 6th Gen is quite repairable thank you very much, and it was like 400 bucks, and it comes with an i7, 16gb of ram, and a 256gb ssd. It's only marketing that has people convinced they will fall behind unless they have the latest and greatest.

How much? With what money?

Come now, these products that cost 3x what they should don't get to claim it did not work out due to lack of demand. No one has pissing away money anymore and products made for some odd not rich but well off tech people is just not going to happen.

I have bought and returned 2 framework laptops. They are repairable but they are also questionable build quality.

The screen on the Framework 12 is very subpar and the size and weight throw it out of being a light laptop.

Despite saying how good Linux support was running NixOS on the replacement Framwork 13 was not great either. Wireless drops and countless reports of drops on their forums with zero responses or workarounds. Most people buy replacement wireless adapters cause the one Framework ships just doesn't work.

On top of that the laptop just feel cheap with a steep price. I have hope for the new Pro, but we'll have to see if it's any good because so far I am pretty dissapointed with Framework.

That’s because they’re really expensive and actually quite mediocre. I really wanted to love my framework, but the build quality is way worse than the price tag would suggest.

Well, so far I've been fine with below €200 used ThinkPad. The gold standard of Linux computing.

I would love to have a Framework laptop. Those things are awesome as hell.

Unfortunately, my very old laptop that I've torn down and repaired over a dozen times is still kicking. And spending $100 to fix it is cheaper than spending a gazillion dollars on a new Framework.

I would gladly buy one, if i had disposable income.

TLDR: Fuck "AI"

I was in the market for a 14'' work laptop and I so DESPERATELY wanted to buy a Framework but I couldn't thanks to a combination of all the AI bullshit driving up memory prices, Framework still being on the Series 1 Intel Ultra chips, and their global availability not quite being there (this bit is understandable for a relatively new company). I ended up buying a base 14'' MacBook Pro M5 even though I wanted to stay on Linux simply because it was the only thing with good perf, crazy good battery, and good build quality that was priced semi-reasonably even though it's on the opposite end of the repairability spectrum.

Even now a comparable Framework (Intel Ultra X7 358H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD) costs ~$150 more than what I paid for my Mac, assuming I can even get it shipped to where I am, and the regional pricing/taxes doesn't push the price higher. Kinda crazy because it's on the more reasonable side of things if memory serves. Dell XPS costs even more.

I hope this memory crisis gets sorted because I never thought I'd see the day that Apple became the budget option. Maybe I'll sell my Mac and get a Framework then because as much as I love using the Mac, I still hate being at Apple's mercy if anything breaks or if I need an upgrade.

It would be very wasteful to get rid of my current laptop to replace it with a Framework.

Lmk when they're corebooted.

Otherwise I'll stick with system76 or starlabs.

They are just too expensive, and it's hard to justify that price when popular brand have models with good level of reparaibility. For example the new Lenovo T14 Gen 7 got a 10/10 on iFixit.

I got a Framework 13 that originally came with an 11th Gen Intel mainboard in it for free. It suffered a mainboard failure.

Swapped the mainboard with a Ryzen board, installed some used DDR5 from eBay and reused all of the other components. Now I have a Framework 13 for around $500 and it's likely the last laptop I'll ever need to own, if I can keep upgrading it every few years.

This may seem weird but I dislike the aspect ratio of their screens.

I have a desktop with 16:9 monitors and a laptop with 16:10.

Those are close enough that your workflow doesn't really change. But 2:3 is different enough it makes a difference.

That and for what they are they're crazy expensive. So I went for a Slimbook (kinda the Spanish version of Tuxedo). They're not perfect but I found them "good enough".

let me guess: the devices live 2x as long but cost 3x as much?

Framework's whole thing is upgradable laptops. The increased cost is what you pay for the upgradable platform instead of buying a new laptop.

Repairability has already been proven multiple times by several OEMs like Lenovo.

Even if the repair process itself becomes tedious, the mark of a quality OEM is offering parts and schematics that allow repair shops to disgnose and fix broken machines.

Unlike Apple, which actively prohibits their vendors from selling any parts to anyone except Apple.

This proves that making a product twice as expensive actually does decrease sales significantly if you aren't Apple.

Honestly, why would I spend thousands on a framework, when I can spend 3x less or more, with a used thinkpad, that is already fairly repairable?

If I was rich, sure, I'd buy a framework in a heartbeat, but am not rich, yet . . . . . . .

They value a laptop that excels at providing value for money, a compact design, battery life, and brand familiarity.

Value for money on what timescale? Most seem to only think about the price vs the functionality a few days after purchase. Longer term, the ability to upgrade and repair components instead of pitching the whole thing would be higher value for money, but that's not how most consumers think.

A compact design is nice, but not the be-all-end-all if Framework can get in a reasonable size/weight range.

Battery life is an oxymoron here... the main issue I have with laptop battery life is after a few years of use it dwindles, eventually to zero. When the battery isn't replaceable, or is a proprietary form factor which costs nearly as much as a new laptop - that results in horrible battery life and value for money performance, but does generate new unit sales for non-repairable laptops.

The idea of repairable notebooks sound good, except it's done by getting filtered through the tech bro lens. Still an ultrabook, the ports must be interchangeable modules to amaze the investors/users.

s/willing/can afford/

I'M nobody!!!!

I want one but I just got a refurbished thinkpad for like $350 and I'm trying to be a little more financially responsible than I was in the past. That being said I recently spent $2k on a 3D printer so maybe I'm not doing that well with the financial responsibility. I would love to get their 13 pro whenever it's in my budget.

I bought a 13" years ago. I thought I would have upgraded the cpu/motherboard, battery, speakers, screen by now but I could never justify the cost for the benefit. So it is the same as the day I bought it. I have bought cheap laptops for kids schooling and had to replace one for what would have been a repairable fault on a Framework but there is a massive price difference and could not justify another Framework. It is a shame. Their stuff needs to be a lot cheaper but it is a chicken and egg with volume.

When they made a cheap "chromebook" class plastic school laptop for kids it ended up costing more than a vastly more powerful mac (even before Apple released their cheap models). The low volume manufacturing had heaps of problems reported on their forums. Its strictly for the fans sadly. People with lots of disposable income who buy one in every colour. I would have loved to buy a similar looking product at a mainstream price and with modern specs but it makes no sense with current cost of living pressures.

To me it is that i upgrade to few times so the laptop would be 10 years old and then everything is out of date. Maybe upgrade battery in between. However, I guess these are really good in the used(resold) market.

I still have my 17" Satellite l300. Still runs briskly. On its third battery.

so it doesnt work

They’re on my list the next time I need one.

Not readily available in Australia, I associate it with Linus (not torvalds), they're expensive, and god knows if Trump does weird export import stuff the moment it ships, and if it needs repair, nobody would be unsurprised if Trump made us pay to ship it back

I bought one for myself, and a high spec one for my wife's business. Mine is just a personal machine but I've been using it as a portable home server in my various moves. Very happy with both. They didn't seem a crazy amount more than similar spec machines in Europe

Yikes, XDA's reporting has really gone downhill since being bought out.

They wont ship to my locale and actively block frieight forwarders, otherwise I would happily give them $10k for a couple high end computers.

I haven't owned a laptop since smartphones and tablets took off. It's become a redundant form factor. Framework would be my go to choice if I ever did need one though.

Not in the market for a laptop currently but I do intend to keep them in mind since I use Linux.

I don't buy notebooks. Only used older Thinkpads, particularly for coreboot/libreboot support.

Huh I didn't realize laptops weren't repairable. That's like, what I do for a living.

Starlabs makes a better one ..and it doesn't suffer from having an investor named Linus Sebastian ..

Overpriced.

I would be willing to buy one if they sold them in my country

Mediocre and repairable hardware for premium prices is not for everyone. Most people probably want the most performance for the least amount of money without any regards or respect for money or the environment.

It probably doesn't help that they have been in some controversial drama either.

And let's not forget that Linus Sebastian from Linus Tech Tips is an investor as well. I don't want my money to go to that greedy turd who screwed over his own audience for money in pure greed, and when he became a rich turd he instantly became the very greedy person he used to hate on the WAN Show.

It's an attractive option, but it has a pretty hard competition from the 7th gen Thinkpad T14.

And many people want high quality repairable laptops.

I'll think about it when they have an ARM option

Framework feels like a bit of a gimmick to me, it's basically dongles, but they're built into the machine. I'd rather have a decent selection of ports out of the box.

Even the headphone jack is an option you need to buy, it's silly.

The real reason I won’t buy one - despite wanting one really badly - is that Apple silicon is just too good. The gap between the battery life, performance and efficiency over x86 continues to widen.

$1100 isnt laptop money. Apple and Alienware poisoned the market 15 years ago. What happened to the dream of a $100 laptop? Wasn't there a whole movie or three about making this stuff affordable?

Best ive seen for value is chromebook. I think i bought 4 laptops one year for nieces and nephews for less than the cost of a single used MacBook pro or whatever was popular at the time. They do all the Facebook and Gmail that 95% of people actually need a computer for.

Price point is bad...

Isn't Framework affiliated with neo nazis or some shit

I am waiting for framework laptops to fall in price. They used to cost like 6 Monero and are now down to like 2 or 3.

I really want to buy a Framework, but it doesn't make sense to me if every year they announce a new model that is improved. Every year I think about buying one a new one gets announced :/ Maybe I don't understand it but what is the point of that?

I'm so so so shocked.

Every fucking time I pointlessly point out that phone batteries are easily swapped and it'll cost you battery + $15 to pay someone since nerd screeches about how it's just not easy enough to fix and blah, blah, blah.

People with disposable income just want the best new shit.