Well of course, being that the other side of it is equating "meeting a man" to "being raped or murdered by a man."

In reality, 99.99% of the time in both cases absolutely nothing will happen, but that doesn't stir up fear and anger so it's less fun to acknowledge that.

You know how many bears I've seen in the woods in all my days out there? 4. Know how many men I've seen? Me neither, lost count somewhere in the hundreds (ok I never counted because it's such a common and trivial thing). In all those times, the bears kept eating from the dumpster and the men politely nod and keep walking. Ironically the bears eating from dumpsters are the more likely ones to kill people, and strangers are the least likely people to kill people (usually someone you already know), but still, nothing happened.

I fucking hate autocorrect. gets worse every year somehow.

misread this as "skirt on the inside and bones on the outside"

oh I'm sorry, did you think that that was a good person to hire for a service like this ‽

Co-opted my ass. It was started by incels pretending to be stoics.

Genuinely curious, your world was wholesome before that single fact?

lemmy is a network mostly populated by cis white men. like a lot of liberal/leftist spaces populated by cis white men, it’s going to be progressive on the surface; i.e., they oppose right wing shit. say here that you support the right to abortion, immigration or gay marriage, and you’re not going to meet much pushback.

but, as soon as you start criticizing dominant groups (or just, say that they have power over oppressed people), now people yell at you. you can see that here, but also, say that anti-white racism is not a thing, or even just that it’s not comparable to actual racism, and you’ll wonder if you actually logged into reddit by accident.

heck, just criticize people’s behavior as bigoted here and they’ll rip you apart…

Because it's unnecessarily inflammatory. The "bear or men" thing is apparently interpreted completely differently by at least some men and women and instead of listening to each other it just ends up as hate for each other. Why would you want to piss of the men that are on your side?

Well, reddit migration I guess.

Well, it's egalitarian, so there's your answer. Equal

it's like solidarity amongst the lower classes only matters up until the point when you have to start working against the oldest arbitrary division that's been used to keep us from organizing

Unfortunately, I think a lot of the read theory bros on lemmy are people who are less concerned about solidarity with the lower class, and really just involved in Marxism because they want to abolish class because they've incidentally fallen into the lower class.

There seems to be a lot more anger about their own displacement within their own society than the plights of more disenfranchised minorities classes. I think that's why a lot of the Marxist/communist instances are so obsessed with the particulars instead of being a more big tent community.

the Read Theory bros theories don't consider critical marxist analysis of gender to be part of the theory that needs to be read, which is frustrating, bordering on upsetting

As a big Read Theory Bro, turned Read Theory Girl, holy fucking shit, this is so true.

Marx, Lenin, and friends are great, but there's so much Feminist and Queer Marxism out there worth reading

Engles' Origin of The Family, Private Property and The State

Alexandra Kollontai's Communism and The Woman Question

Anuradha Ghandy's Philosophical Trends in the Feminist Movement

Transgender Warriors by Leslie Feinberg

Yeah.... The vast majority of the comments I've had rack up a bunch of down votes on this platform have been arguing with misogynists. I think it's mainly a byproduct of the demographics of lemmy mostly being made up of young dudes working in tech.

"sexism both ways"

Lmfao

Boo hoo that men are offended.

I really don't want to give a rhetoric lesson in a comment, but not everything people say is a 100% absolute that is about you specifically. It's a commentary on the fact that many women do not feel safe around a random man because of their lived experiences. If you don't understand why that is, you have the entire internet at your disposal.

Same with men, I think.

No, the women's choice didn't include men making revenge fantasy posts. Don't move the goal posts.

I never saw a bear do a mass shooting, or sentence someone to life in prison, or waterboard someone, or build an oil pipeline, or pass a tax cut for the rich. Men are way more powerful than bears, so they have to be better. Strength is for protecting the weak.

The vast majority of bears have never hurt anyone.

no. clearly no. bears are opportunist cowards. you can deal with them quite easily. yes, they're dangerous, but they're not ever actively problems.

i'm curious why you're judging the bear by the worst possible outcome rather than the most likely outcome and the man by this specific outcome.

Which bear has killed someone? Nowhere in the debate is an actual bear present.

And even if there was a bear, are you going to ignore all the killing men has done in the same time frame?

I can't say how it's going to affect all men, but for me (who is a man) that is not how it affects me. The fact that there exists a lot of mysogonistic men doesn't reflect on me. I am confident that I'd be one of the men who'd just leave a woman alone if we ever met in the woods, so knowing that there are a lot of men out their who wouldn't doesn't get me salty at the women who are fearful of them; but rather, it gets me salty at the shithead men out there who are ultimately the root of the women's fear.

Right now, you are ultimately expressing your anger towards the hypothetical victim rather getting angry at the hypothetical asshole.

Bro. I know you're not a rapist, but you're going to have to accept that lots of men are rapists. If you want people to think of men in general as nice people, you need to fight the rapists. Right now you're not doing that.

Awwww are your fee fees hurt

Dude you sound so sad. Yes, dudes suck towards women, a lot. Accept it. It's not a reflection on you personally. But, your reaction is telling (all about ME and MY feelings)

Here's a short video for you, it's a compilation of women on a bus just existing in a public space: https://www.tiktok.com/...

Yes, not every man on those busses is being creepy. But if there's one on every bus that is what women are going to remember. Now imagine a woman who takes the bus regularly dealing with this every day, then being asked if she'd rather encounter a random bear in the woods or a random man in the woods.
She's encountered random men in public spaces and this is what has happened. No wonder she doesn't want to encounter them in the woods.

you DO realize how horrible it is to hear "I think you're more dangerous than a random bear just for existing"?

Just about every person is more dangerous than your average bear encounter.....

The vast majority of bears that people run into in the wild are black bears, which are mostly harmless.

I as an experienced outdoorsman would much rather stumble across a bear in the deep woods than another lone person, especially in a survival situation. Desperate people are the most dangerous animals by far.

supposed to give men lasting mental health issues and extreme social anxiety?

If this is what gives you extreme social anxiety then you are in serious need of professional help. That sounds like more of a you problem a societal one.

Let's try a quick thought experiment:

Say you're driving down the road and following all the rules. You come to a gradual stop at a red light, and you're suddenly hit from behind because the driver behind you wasn't paying attention.

This accident is not your fault in any way. You did everything right, the other driver fucked up.

But does that mean you can just walk away and everything will be taken care of for you? No, you have to contact insurance companies, arrange for vehicle repairs and alternate transportation until it's done, notify law enforcement and other agencies under some circumstances, etc.

So why do you have to do anything if it isn't your fault?

It's because fault and responsibility are not always the same thing. It sucks, it's unfair, but it's just how things work. Sometimes we have to clean up other peoples' messes.

When it comes to the man or bear question, which is also a thought experiment rather than a personal indictment, it's not the fault of all men that many women feel the way they do about us. But even for those of us that didn't cause the problem, it is still our responsibility to acknowledge the lived experiences of others and listen without making it about ourselves.

Enough other men are shitty towards women to make a lot of them sincerely consider whether they would be safer with an average man or average bear. Nobody said anything about you personally or whether they were choosing guaranteed death over time with you.

Empathy is the only way to take meaningful steps toward changing the perception. Invalidating women's feelings or pretending the pattern doesn't exist won't help anyone, including yourself.

Oh, won't you think of the men! 🙄

how is this being upvoted?? is lemmy really this misogynist?

you DO realize how horrible it is to hear “I think you’re more dangerous than a random bear just for existing”?

Dating men is a minefield. Discarding caution because "it might not be necessary" goes against the point of caution. They feel safer encountering a bear because the bear leaves them alone if left alone. Some men, on the contrary, would actively do something bad even if left alone. The point is not that all or most men are like this. It's that they can be and assuming that they aren't is unsafe.

And this isn’t supposed to give men lasting mental health issues and extreme social anxiety?

No?? Strangers not trusting you is perfectly normal. If you think you are owed trust because all women will magically know that you're trustworthy, you aren't trustworthy.

My guy. What the fuck. Why would this question give you anxiety? It's not about you. Why are you taking this so personally it's giving you anxiety?

Have you never seen any report of how many women experience some form of sexual assault from men in their life? Because that's higher than you think.

The question is satire. It's a bit stupid to make agruments against it based on statistics.

How many thousands of men have you interacted with and yet are still alive?

"I've never been in a conversation with someone who wasn't alive, therefore death isn't real."

Fucking baby-brain shit. Have you even developed object permanence yet?

Here's women encountering men in public spaces: https://www.tiktok.com/...

No wonder they don't want to encounter them alone in the woods.

Lol, are you literally thinking the hypothetical includes all men? They aren't going to run away from their father, brother, cousin, or the nice old man who runs the laundremat.

It's about predatory men. Men that want something from them - sex, a relationship, companionship. The way mamy men pursue this is often very sketchy and/or dangerous. Domestic violence against woman is extremely common.

There have been 3 bear attacks in the USA this year, all three fatal.

Now do men.

Your mind is going to be blown when you find out about the number of man attacks this year.

I bet even male toddlers killed more people in the us

"Humans also generally leave you alone if you're not in their immediate vicinity"

You should talk to a women one day.

you get only 2-5 *actual attacks* reported per year.

There have been 3 black bear attacks in the USA this year, all three fatal, and one brown bear attack, also fatal.

And is 3 + 1 within the range [2, 5]? I know it's a tough question, but I have faith you can manage to figure it out!

Four is between two and five, though? Which is exactly what they said?

I can't tell if this a serious comment. There were only three in the entire United States? God damn dude, maybe I'll take the bear as well... And I'm a guy.

I guess you've sold us all on how much better the bear is. For the record, I encountered a bear earlier this year and yelled at it. It walked away.

I don’t think you understand what adjusted for population means. Bears kill like 2.6 people a year.

Humans kill ~11,000 times as many, and have 100 times the population. So humans are 110x more likely to kill you than a bear. (Note this is humans, not men. Men are responsible for 87.5% of known murders, but 50% of the population.) Adjusting for this, men are ~145 to 200x more likely to kill a human than a bear (like a quarter of murders are unknown so I gave it a wide range) You also have to take into account humans are generally bound by society and thus most human interaction won’t be as dangerous where as it’s not like a bears gonna be like “uh oh there are cameras here or other people might see me kill this person” so like… yeah you can’t perfectly account for everything but uh, point being bears really aren’t that dangerous if you see one alone in the woods.

Also sorry if I didn’t provide links and math might be slightly whatever I was taking and shit and honestly don’t care that much.

Edit: and before you try and say anything else please note this is me being nice and only looking at literal murder. Ignoring assault and sexual assault and etc, which all bear attacks are about 35 a year total and… yeah human numbers are uh, MUCH higher.

A purple...?

Since that’s not what it was being used to justify, you’ve helpfully proven my point by reenacting it, staring at the tree and insisting it’s the forest.

This happens more often than you’d think, so don’t feel too bad.

Are there any bears that will be successfully thrown off by a decoy snausage or chihuahua

The entire argument of a woman meeting a bear or a random man in the woods is dumb from the start.

Most bears would run away from a human in the woods, a normal human is not seen as prey in most situations.

So this makes the argument more like asking:

Would you rather catch a glimpse of a bear in the woods or meet a random man in the woods?

Which makes far more sense both logically and emotionally, especially when people pick the bear over the man.

As a man, the original question about meeting a man or a bear in the woods, initially triggered a feeling of being compared to a lethal animal or certain death, and coming up short.

This obviously feels unfair to most men (and to be completely fair, it IS completely unfair to most men).

However, looking at the more realistic outcome of "meeting" a bear, i.e. catching a glimpse of it, it makes far more sense.

Sorry for the ramble, I am just annoyed at the stupid question and got caught up overanalyzing it.

Idk what you want me to do? I see the writing on the wall, I don't hate women, I just think it's over. Men have a really bad reputation, and I don't see how that can change.

I do act like I do online, I'm typically grumpy, but will help when asked.

With women, I'm a bit more awkward, but force myself to interact, so I got friends there. Not even trying to go romance or you know, fuck anyone atm.

I feel an almost smug superiority to my co-workers because I'm not afraid to hitch a ride with a woman. They don't act weird in a woman's presence, but talk sexualy about that same one all the time.

If you believe people would act the same in person as they do online if there's no one around to judge them, I have a bridge to sell you.

and they're both rounding errors.

Well of course not I've never once seen him with Elisha

While society may be trending safer in actuality, it seems people's perception is that it's trending towards the dangerous.

I'm sure this has nothing to do with the 24/7 ragebait fearbait "news" cycle nor social media, nooooo.

But in effect that means no matter how safe it gets, they won't feel safe by design so those companies and influencers can make more money.

Sometimes you gotta think about who's asking the question and why, and not just about the answer. (To that original question.)