Is riding carts autism or just being a kid for life? I still do this and DOS was my first OS...
bridgeenjoyer 36 points 8 days ago
quickenparalysespunk 16 points 8 days ago
upvote for DOS family!
quickenparalysespunk 3 points 7 days ago
i forgot about Tandy PCs! 🥲 i liked the name lol
schipelblorp 10 points 8 days ago
How do the bears exit the cart corral?
OldChicoAle 15 points 8 days ago
Ghost bears
nightwatch_admin 3 points 8 days ago
By bribing the herder
nightwatch_admin 3 points 8 days ago
Fair, by bribing the butler then?
deadbeef79000 3 points 8 days ago
Same way they got in.
schipelblorp 3 points 8 days ago
wouldn't they have to climb over the cart you rode in?
i mean, i'm sure it's not a problem. bears are agile climbers.
deadbeef79000 5 points 8 days ago
Even easier: they're imaginary bears, just imagine then outside the corral.
brem 1 point 8 days ago
Wear a shirt that asks that question when I am guiding my cart led by bears into the coral reef corral! I dare you! Heathen! Miscreant! Obsturctor of order! Suggestiquator of squalor! You fool! The coral corral exists for a purpose! How will you navigate the parking lots, nay, STREETS..when they are filled with stray shopping carts! YOU SHANT, AND WE WILL ALL SUFFER FOR YOUR QUESTIONING OF THE ORDER DEMANDED!!!!!
LemmySuxNow 89 points 8 days ago
This isn't a neurodivergent thing. It's an intelligent / ethical person thing.
MonkderVierte 13 points 7 days ago
Because most autists have a stronger sense of rule and most ADHD of ethics. While some don't. They just didn't want to be exclusionary.
Donkter 22 points 7 days ago
Yeah, I've noticed a real problem on here with that. Claiming neurodivergency for something that some people do and some people don't.
This is a trait that some people have. Some people do it more and some do it less. If it's combined with many other symptoms and it makes it difficult for someone to function in society then it might be grounds for a diagnosis.
I think things like this are also just representative of a general shift in society. There's a lot more education online and elsewhere about the power dynamics in society that might have been ignored or not understood in the past. So this behavior is more prevalent which coincides with an increase in neurodivergency even though those two things aren't actually correlated.
im_fine_sandy 4 points 7 days ago
I don't think it's necessarily "a problem on here", I think this type of assertion is just part of exploring neurodivergency.
Does something really need to make it difficult for someone to function in society in order to be part of a diagnosis? That seems unlikely.
I disagree that this is an "intelligent / ethical person thing", although I don't really believe that intelligence and ethics is really measurable in that way.
Donkter 9 points 7 days ago
Yes. It does need to make it difficult to function. That's one of the core criteria for most diagnoses in the DSM. "Neurodivergency" as a meme and - I guess you can call it a subculture? - on the internet is wholly misunderstood.
It's really hard to categorize neurodivergency. Particularly in contrast to being "neurotypical". There isn't an "average human" that they compare people to on a chart and say "yep, you're not up to this standard" gavel bang "autism".
I mean, just think about it. If more than 50% of people exhibited this trait in one way or another, this behavior suddenly becomes neurotypical, since the "typical" person possesses this trait.
But the problem with this, just like your problem with intelligence and ethics is that it's all impossible to measure. Behaviors like this exist on a spectrum. This is part of my problem with this aspect of the subculture and posts like this. This behavior happens in "neurotypicals" as well. Autism isn't a switch flipped in your brain that suddenly gives you special traits that neurotypical people don't have. Autism is a diagnosis that happens when a person has a defined constellation of traits that are generally correlated and one or more of which are making it difficult to function.
I saw another post recently that went something like "neurotypicals don't understand having to take a day off after social events" and "neurotypicals don't rehearse social interactions in their head". Which is simply untrue. Many many people take a rest day after a social event or think about how to handle a social interaction, the only difference that the behavior isn't so severe that they are functionally impaired by it.
Donkter 2 points 6 days ago
I feel like you grasped a straw here and it really didn't work. Even if I can parse out the point you're trying to make, it still just affirms my point? But I'm not sure I even got what you were trying to say.
sneekee_snek_17 16 points 7 days ago
Couldn't agree more. I do not follow arbitrary rules unless compelled to, as long as it doesn't harm anyone or anything. If you want me to do something, there needs to be a logical reason for me to do it
ricecake 9 points 7 days ago
I generally follow the rules unless I have a reason not to. The rationale is that just because I don't see the reason for the rule doesn't mean there isn't one. If everyone ignored every rule they didn't understand the need for the world would be even more of a shit show.
So I stop at the stop sign when no one is around. I know I would only do it when it was safe, but so does everyone who got hit by a car running a stop sign at a blind corner in the middle of the night.
I'm definitely asking about it if it's the least bit inconvenient though.
Kangae_Hishiryo 1 point 6 days ago
Most of the time most rules are really arbitrary, actually.
Especially regarding table etiquette, or things as social etiquette. Why should I sit in a way or another at the table while eating or use spoons, knives, and forks in one way or another, even if those aren't the most comfortable ways for me, just because that's the rule? Why should I look people always to the eyes? That won't make communication better or easier, and just will be hurtful to me (literally, I can suffer from headaches, nausea, cold sweat, stomach aches, and other symptoms of severe social anxiety).
The problem with acritical rule following is that it will make you more prone to do bad things if a rule tells you to do so, just because "that's what the rules say".
ricecake 2 points 6 days ago
Alright, but I didn't say not to uncritically follow rules. I said I follow rules unless I have a reason not to.
From what you said it sounds like you have a reason.
I was also pretty clearly talking about rules of greater consequence than table manners or conversational etiquette. I don't typically put things like traffic law in the same category of table etiquette.
It's a pretty big stretch to go from "I don't put my feet on the table at dinner" to "the rules required me to do bad things and I did it because those are the rules".
Finally, there's a reason for most rules of etiquette and manners, you just don't know what they are or care. That's fine in the end, I don't typically follow all rules of etiquette either because I'm lazy. If someone invites me to their fancy dinner though then I'll put a napkin on my lap, keep my elbows off the table and eat with the right fork at the right time. Not because it's the rules but because I want the persons fancy dinner to be as nice as they hoped. I'll follow a rule of etiquette because I care about someone else.
But I never said or implied that anyone should follow rules without thinking.
Doc_Crankenstein 1 point 6 days ago
Bingo. Better have a good damn reason for trying to obstruct my autonomy and dictate my actions. Otherwise I couldn't give less of a shit about some arbitrary rule.
sneekee_snek_17 1 point 6 days ago
To be clear, I'm happy as a clam to follow rules
As long as they make sense
Sharkticon 6 points 8 days ago
Plenty of stupid unethical rules have detailed explanations.
infinitesunrise 2 points 7 days ago
The tweet misunderstands autism (And vaguely calls it 'nuerodivergence'). Questioning rules in autism is, at least in my own experience, more about justice than merely understanding why the rule is. We're not asking why for the logic, we're asking why to make sure it's just. You don't usually loudly disobey an unjust rule unless you're making a stand, you do it quietly without acknowledgement because people who enforce unjust rules tend to be vindictive and cruel about it.
sp3ctr4l 4 points 7 days ago
Yeah I agree.
I'm autistic, have a sense of justice being the result of reasonable clear fair and as objective as possible rules being consistently followed...
... but you don't need to be autistic to adhere to that. You can be ethical, moral, hold yourself to a standard, determine the reasonability of said standard, without being autistic.
Also... neurodivergence is more broad than just autism.
ADHD is a form of neurodivergence. On its own, I don't see that as being inherently relevant to rule comprehension, consideration or adherence, beyond maybe more complex rules or contingent rulesets taking more effort/exposure/practice to understand, consider or adhere to.
Schizophrenics are neurodivergent. Their ruleset often frequently changes considerably, due to reasons they often cannot explain coherently, and/or the rules they'll tell you they follow can be incoherent/contradictory.
DID is a form of neurodivergence. Each different identity often has its own significantly distinct ruleset / approach to rules.
Being bipolar is arguably a form of neurodivergence. Such people essentially have two rulesets that they alternate between.
Prancingpotato 1 point 7 days ago
I don't know
NotAnOtter 0 points 6 days ago
WTF is wrong with this thread.
No. Intentionally breaking rules just because you don't understand their existence is not a sign of ethical thinking or intelligence.
LemmySuxNow 2 points 5 days ago
"Just following orders"
MelodiousFunk 47 points 8 days ago
And I've found that most people do not care, they just want marching orders. Like, I'm not here to give you orders. This is what the goal is, this is how it's currently done, this is why we do it that way. They want to commit "how it's currently done" to rote memory.
And then the first (and second, and third, etc) time something does not go as planned, they're stopped in their tracks. Context was rejected, preventing understanding, leaving little framework for the unexpected.
So they ask me to tell him how to fix it. Well, I don't know how to fix it. This hasn't happened before. I do not have a step by step committed to memory. But I can probably figure it out if you give me a few minutes. There, should be good now.
"Jeez, I didn't want you to do it for me, why can't you just tell me how to do it?"
Archangel1313 61 points 8 days ago
Hahahaha. That's not "autism". That's just "normal". Right?
NotASharkInAManSuit 44 points 8 days ago
…Right?
GreyEyedGhost 10 points 8 days ago
I swear, at this point, Padme's beasts fill the entire panel.
arctanthrope 45 points 8 days ago
sort of tangential, but this discussion reminds me of a recent conversation. we had a plumbing leak recently so we had to have these water damage mitigation guys come out and check all the floors and drywall and figure out what needs to get replaced, yada yada. and they've all got these things they call "moisture meters" which are little black plastic boxes with a digital display on the front, and you hold it against a surface and it shows a number that somehow indicates how much water is absorbed into the material. so I asked one of these guys "hey, how does that work? like what's it actually measuring?" and he gave a response that sounded in tone like a technical explanation, but the actual information essentially boiled down to "it tells you how much water is in there, and if it's above 20 it's bad." and I'm thinking like, yeah, I got that, I figured that out from hearing you call it a "moisture meter" and watching you use it for ten seconds. is that what you thought I was confused about? obviously I mean like, what quantity does the number represent; what are the units; what physical thing is being measured to generate that number; is it based on a physical property, a thermal property, chemical, electrical; you're using it the same on wood, drywall, carpet, insulation, how does it apparently treat all materials the same when they have different physical properties and absorb, hold, and release water in different ways? it just baffled me that I could have all these questions less than a minute after seeing one for the first time, but this guy who uses one professionally every day only needs to know water>20=bad
Zron 18 points 8 days ago
Spent a few minutes researching because I was almost sure it was just measuring resistance but that is different depending on materials.
They measure moisture by using a scale of wood equivalent moisture. Basically no matter what you stick it in, the pins measure resistance across the probes and give a number as an equivalent reading for sticking them in wood that is wet. Apparently wood is pretty consistent about resistance regardless ofof what type of wood it is. And since American houses are primarily made of wood, we only care about how wet the wood in a home could be.
Zron 12 points 8 days ago
No it does work on drywall.
Water will spread until it reaches equilibrium. So if drywall is tested and shows 20% then the wood directly attached to it is likely at 20% moisture content as well.
Kind of a genius little device, honestly.
Hoimo 3 points 7 days ago
Shouldn't that be the other way around? You can make the extrapolation from the (more accurate) reading of the wood to the materials around it, but not from other materials back to wood. If the resistance of wet drywall is equivalent to that of wood at 20% moisture, I'd think that the drywall is a lot wetter? And using the device on a steel beam might show some insane percentage when we know steel does not absorb water.
Simon_Shitewood 9 points 8 days ago
How curious is the average person about the inner workings of a phone while using one? Most of the time people just need to know how to use tools, rather than the specifics of how they work.
lightnsfw 6 points 8 days ago
Not really the same situation. Knowing how that box works is the difference between being confident the person trying to sell you on home repairs is an expert or just some guy with a box designed to scare rubes into buying more shit. I don't need to know exactly how my phone works because all it's doing is taking calls and browsing the web. If it had some app that was measuring something to try and sell me shit, I would want to understand how that worked before I bought into it.
Simon_Shitewood 2 points 7 days ago
You were sold the phone. How did you know it would do what you needed before buying it? You didn't try to understand it, you looked at reviews or just put blind trust in the company that they know enough about how it works.
lightnsfw 2 points 7 days ago
I do have a general idea of how phones work so maybe I'm not the person to ask but a phone costs hundreds of dollars. Fixing water damage is going to be $1000s. It's not the same level of risk. And yes you can look at reviews and the specs on their website before purchasing. If you're really interested you can watch someone on YouTube take it apart and see how it's constructed.
RephlectioNZ 2 points 8 days ago
Ignore that guy. I agree, that sounds like black magic fuckery and I need an explanation.
reksas 2 points 7 days ago
I once was doing some it support trainee work on some education facility. Their old it manager retired while i was there and whole it support thing was outsourced to some external company. They probably knew their shit well enough but still i had to explain some things about office 365 to them (i hadnt even used 365 properly before that ) and i felt that i knew some things better than them. Yet they were the ones getting paid.
They were probably better qualified to do the job in general, but still in my opinion some random trainee shouldnt know more about anything than PAID professional who is supposed to take care of everything. Though I also head from them that they are quite well worked and have to work on MANY sites and basically are not allowed to make mistakes, so maybe there was that too. Seemed really stressful to work for that company.
diaphragmwp 42 points 7 days ago
This has little to do with autism and more with being smart. No, seriously.
From the English Wikipedia, stages of moral development:
- Obedience and punishment orientation (''How can I avoid punishment?'')
- Self-interest orientation (''What's in it for me?'') (''Paying for a benefit'')
- Interpersonal accord and conformity (''Social norms'') (''The good boy/girl attitude'')
- Authority and social-order maintaining orientation (''Law and order morality'')
- Social contract orientation
- Universal ethical principles (''Principled conscience'')
1 and 2 are "Level 1 (Pre-Conventional)" (according to the same article, children and animals have this), 3 and 4 are "Level 2 (Conventional)", 5 and 6 are "Level 3 (Post-Conventional)".
The last one is basically thinking around "what if everyone did that?". Unfortunately, lots of people are at either stage 2 or 4. Sometimes downgrading from 4 to 2 once they become the authority.
TubularTittyFrog 3 points 7 days ago
because it makes people feel special to say they are neurodivergent. it's a neat label to have for many folks.
it doesn't make them feel special to say they are lazy entitled jerks... which is usually the behaviour they are reporting on that they claim makes them neurodivergent.
and if you look at the neurodivergent communities on here... a lot of the posts are them basically claiming they have super powers.
it's the same psychology behind horoscopes, new age religions, flat earthers, etc. people really really really want to feel special and different and superior (or persecuted/victimhood) to 'everyone else', and neurodivergent has become yet another way for folks to feel that way about themselves.
Dyskolos 4 points 7 days ago
I never thought of being ND as "something special". But yup, probably right. Whatever makes you feel stand out. Another useless trait humans shouldn't have. The need to be in the center of everything.
Dyskolos 1 point 6 days ago
Because one isn't necessarily the causation for the other or vice versa. And this moral-guideline portrayed here is simply a sign of a higher intellect and/or more time spent on the problem of "what is right and wrong".
I am both BTW.
Strider 1 point 6 days ago
Well, you know, it was rethorical and before you answer, yes I am aware. It was more of a funny/sarcastic poke at the topics.
I can relate to the situation. Everyone (as an example) has adhd now. And it fucking sucks. My sister had that diagnosed in around 1990 where you could be sure you had it when you got the diagnosis.
And now it's flipped upside down. Now the ones that need support or a diagnosis can't get it because of that flood. I would like to have my autism diagnosis but I likely will never get the chance. And especially now later in life when I could have used support because my limits are starting to hit harder and my energy is lower.
Anyhow, I'll be fine. But just to state where I am coming from, the whole situation is totally messed up either way.
UnderpantsWeevil 7 points 7 days ago
It's very curious to claim neurodivergent people refused to participate in the slave trade, the Holocaust, or white nationalist lynch mobs.
I haven't seen any evidence to this effect. Certainly, I've seen a fair share of evidence against it.
This has little to do with autism and more with being smart.
Intelligent people engage in immoral activities frequently. They get sucked into cults of personality and religious extremism frequently. They are conned frequently.
Intelligence isn't infalliblity.
diaphragmwp -1 points 7 days ago
It’s very curious to claim neurodivergent people refused to participate in the slave trade
I never did.
Intelligence isn’t infalliblity.
True. Objection, relevance.
minorkeys 32 points 8 days ago
If you don't have a good damned reason, then fuck your rule. Do you have any idea how many rules exist simply because it favoured one group or person over others? And now we're stuck living with it? Question all the rules. Many of them are selfish bullshit. Like this new everyone has to use AI, or OSs needing photo ID to function, or why rich people get to avoid prison for their numerous rule breaking crimes, even become president FFS.
Rules need to be wise or they shouldn't be followed and I'm not trusting most ppls opinions of whether they are wise or not.
bridgeenjoyer 16 points 8 days ago
I have a hard time believing its not everyone because it makes zero sense to me why you wouldnt think through something critically.
otacon239 9 points 8 days ago
I think this is the great pandemic. I don’t know if I have a skewed world view, but so many people are in survival mode all the time that they don’t have the time to think about these things where those with autism don’t have the option not to.
I don’t think that these people want to live like ostriches, but I they’re so preoccupied with our current state of things that the energy and time simply aren’t available.
Having some time to sit quietly and consider your situation is a luxury few can afford.
papalonian 30 points 8 days ago
Relevant story:
I worked in a pharmacy during COVID. Once vaccine supply balanced out to the point we could take walk-ins, we were told by corporate that even if someone was walking in without an appointment, we were to go into the system and make them an appointment for the current date and time. To clarify, this is a separate system than what bills insurance, notifies doctors, documents the vaccine etc. It's just an appointment system.
Dumb rule. Stupid. Did not follow it for weeks because we were busy, y'know, administering vaccines and dispensing medications.
Until I found out why we were supposed to do it...
This was the vaccine that you got one dose of, then a follow up dose ~6 weeks later. When you book an appointment, it automatically schedules the followup appointment and notifies the patient when it's coming up, helping us not get slammed with walk-in appointments and the patient not forget their second dose.
From that point on, I was adamant that appointments be made for every vaccine with multiple doses.
wraekscadu 11 points 8 days ago
Yea whatever, fuck them. I always hated school because of this. I completely understand teachers' plight and all that stuff. It's hard to manage 60 kids n stuff (we had 60 kids per class in the country I grew up in), but still... Treating children like thoughtless, desireless, subhuman entities is one of the greatest tragedies occurring that society is highly blind to.
kolmaskommentoija 4 points 7 days ago
They should, but it varies case by case. Some really do get pissed off, when they feel like you are questioning their authority/intelligence/skills/etc. and do not realize you are just interested in the "why"s.
Teachers are just humans.
agamemnonymous 27 points 7 days ago
Well yeah, there are only two kinds of rules:
- The right way to do things
- Stupid bullshit that serves no purpose
If you can't at least give a basic reasoning for the rule, it's #2
infinitesunrise 23 points 7 days ago
I agree with others in this thread, this has more to do with ethics and critical thinking than with nuerodivigence. And that nuerodivergence seems to be getting conflated here with autism, specifically.
Resonosity 19 points 7 days ago
It's a sign of intelligence to question the status quo.
And if being intelligent is neurodivergent because the rest of the populace is stupid asf, so be it
cx40 18 points 8 days ago
The problem is that all the rules contradict each other in one way or another. If you know the reason for the rule, then you know which ones take precedence in each situation. Otherwise, you're just making arbitrary choices on which ones to follow and which to break, and if you can just arbitrarily break a rule with no obvious consequences, then why bother ever following it?
ACindyDerg 18 points 8 days ago
Try to figure out why you would have that be a rule if you don't get it though. There are some rules that you will never get explained why, but if you think from their perspective it can actually become clear of, yes this might be a kind of arbitrary rule in some cases, but it shows that you are capable of figuring out and following arbitrary rules.
Like how, I forget which band it is, puts in their contract that all the brown or green or whatever M&Ms have to be put into a separate bowl, because one time the people did not read or follow the setup instructions and people almost fucking died. They can walk into the dressing room and immediately see if the instructions have been followed based on a bowl of M&Ms
NotASharkInAManSuit -1 points 8 days ago
I am not capable of following arbitrary rules that I know are arbitrary, because they are arbitrary and I’m not a robot. That’s stupid as fuck.
Edit: I really don’t understand the downvotes. Do most people honestly agree with this dog shit sentiment of just shut up and do as you’re told? That’s fucking gross.
Edit: Do you guys not know what arbitrary means?
Doc_Crankenstein 2 points 6 days ago
I also don't understand why you're downvoted. Arbitrary rules are bullshit, and the majority of rules that exist are absolutely arbitrary.
NotASharkInAManSuit 2 points 6 days ago
Lemmy, home of the rebels and revolutionaries, obviously.
Proves a point I make a lot. 90% of every demographic of anything is fake. They can call themselves leftists but sticking feathers up your ass does not make you a chicken. Just a bunch of fucking reactionaries, no more, no less.
emergencyfood 1 point 7 days ago
Very few rules are arbitrary. A rule may be bad, or no longer relevant, but there must have been a reason someone went to the trouble of making it. Once you can figure out that purpose, you can accept or reject it. But until then, you must consider the possibility that your knowledge is simply incomplete.
ACindyDerg 0 points 7 days ago
I explicitely said not to just shut the fuck up and do what you are told. Either all rules are arbitrary or none are, as all rules are to achieve a specific goal and there is no logical way to get an aught from an is statement. Figure out the goal and decide from there, as in the example given: goal make sure that we don't die to them not following our instructions, so make one extremely arbitrary rule that would be one of the first things people like you would skip because they don't see the point in making sure that everything is set up exactly right. A decent number of rules are exactly like that, a quick vibe check to see at a glance if you are going to do the "arbitrary rules" that don't have an obvious reason but never the less have an actual important reason behind them.
NotASharkInAManSuit 1 point 7 days ago
Something not being obvious does not equate to it being arbitrary. If it’s arbitrary then it literally has no importance and is unnecessary. That’s what arbitrary means. You are very much just saying shut up and do as you’re told.
ACindyDerg -1 points 6 days ago
Arbitrary in this case means it doesn't specifically matter but it still can overall. Like what specifically you choose to eat is arbitrary, but that you eat at all is important.
TheLeadenSea 16 points 8 days ago
Just fucking teach your children why, if you can't explain the reason, maybe you shouldn't be doing it
deadbeef79000 19 points 8 days ago
IMHO most people are not curious enough to have thought about why a rule exists.
I always want to know why a rule exists. I respect people enough to explain why a rule exists too.
This does lead to awkward situations where the reason why the rule exists is bullshit or worse.
NotAnOtter 16 points 6 days ago
Neurodivergent people are not a monolith.
LavaPlanet 14 points 8 days ago
The second part, where neurodivergent folks do follow rules and get angry when others don't, is the flip side of the coin where neurotypicals don't follow rules that they consider not really that important. They know the rules, they know why, they just think the consequences aren't that bad, or they don't feel the consequences or pure ego. Why is it pathologised when neurodivergent people don't follow rules, but when neurotypicals do it, its fine. Then neurodivergent people are pathologised for noticing neurotypicals don't follow rules. But when neurotypicals notice neurodivergent folk not following rules, not pathologised.
Sorry for the meaningless rant. I haven't had a coffee yet. Better go fix that. Eta: ok I've just had one sip, but now I've got more for the meaningless rant...
Why is it described as "if neurodivergent don't fully understand a rule" and not "when neurotypicals poor communication skills don't explain rules properly, whole swathes of people fail to follow the rule, because of said communication issue"
faythofdragons 3 points 8 days ago
I don't know why it's gotta be neurotypical vs neurodivergent anyways. My audhd partner is absolute shit sometimes at explaining things in a way that me, a person with a brain tumor, can understand. He'll leave these gaps in his instructions because it seems obvious and intuitive to him, then get frustrated when I misunderstand.
Like, there was this time I was helping him cut some really long 2x4s, where the boards were long enough that it was off the saw table, which was making them bend and not cut right. So he had me go stand at the end and "keep them straight", which I interpreted as keeping the end from drooping AND/OR wandering off course. He just wanted me to keep it from drooping. So he got irritated that we had to try a third time, snappy with me about clarifying questions, and I still don't quite understand why keeping it from wandering off course was a bad thing.
Likewise, I'm also horrible at explaining things sometimes. My brain sometimes straight up forgets words, and I'm just over here hoping you can understand what I mean by "that thingie" and charades.
4am 12 points 8 days ago
So what you are saying is that they operate in logic and reason and that they have a healthily critical relationship with authority?
I’m sorry? Which people are they trying to convince us are the broken ones, again?
The real neurodivergence is the charisma chuds; American was built for them. Dumb con men who’s narcissistic tendencies allow them to sell us all on how they’re actually the best ones and we are the weird ones.
I know it’s just reductive fan fiction but I like to imagine all the emotional disregulation baggage is just the realization of living in a world run by selfish children who would kill just to be popular and be waited on
Guttural 12 points 7 days ago
This is not a valid excuse to go into asshole territory. Occasionally, you might not be in a position to understand why things are done a certain way - mostly because of inexperience, or your higher-ups might not have the time to explain the rules to you. Some examples might include regulations or standards.
It's alright to be humble and recognize that you may not understand some things sometimes. That's actually how you learn, and avoid pissing off your colleagues.
NotAnOtter 0 points 6 days ago
Agree. Refusing to follow rules / policies unless you have a full explanation of why that rule / policy was made just makes you an unemployable asshole. Neurodivergent or otherwise. The idea of me explaining in detail a specific set of policies, having someone sit there smiling and nodding along, just to go right ahead and flat out ignore me would infuriate me, as it would basically anyone.
And FWIW, autistic people generally do great with rules. The disorder generally leads to people struggling in ambiguity, not black/white rules.
The original post + poster just suck
ComfortableRaspberry 14 points 7 days ago
If you can't explain your rule so it makes sense, your rule is shit and you expecting others to follow it are the actual annoying person.
Saapas 5 points 7 days ago
I've heard plenty of unreasonable people say this about completely reasonable rules. Hell, I've heard someone say this about seatbelts, "it doesn't make sense how it isn't my own decision" lol
Sometimes people just don't get something. Doesn't mean the rule is bad if you don't get it lol
MonkderVierte 1 point 7 days ago
A seatbelt you can't adjust the height would actually strangle me in a crash. Not that i don't put it on, but there might be reasons in some cases.
ComfortableRaspberry 3 points 7 days ago
If we would blindly follow convention people would still not wash their hands before operating.
Convention alone is not enough. There should be a reason why this convention is needed. And that's the part that has to be more convincing than "it has always been like that".
MeatballMam 12 points 6 days ago
This is massively over-generalized. I'm sure some people on the spectrum do this. I don't talk to a lot of people, I am very reclusive, so I couldn't give you an actual irl baseline from experience, but I'm on the spectrum. I have a job with plenty of rules I don't think make any sense. I have a vested interest in keeping my job, so I follow the rules. One of my coworkers has been in the same job for over a decade, and she is quite proficient at following rules she personally doesn't like or understand. She wouldn't have a job here if she didn't.
TubularTittyFrog 3 points 6 days ago
yeah but where is the part where they lecture everyone else who they are wrong or not neurodiverse if they also don't have the same issues?
MeatballMam 1 point 2 days ago
I've gotten pretty good at compartmentalizing. Even if I think management does some profoundly stupid things, I'm just there to do a job and collect a paycheck. As long as they don't run the company into the ground, it's not my problem.
lacethespace 11 points 7 days ago
So the neurodivergent folk converge on it? This rule of thumb makes no sense to me.
lacethespace 5 points 7 days ago
Yes, maybe I just didn't understand it.
TubularTittyFrog 1 point 7 days ago
you're clearly not neurodivergent enough. gotta level up
quickenparalysespunk 11 points 8 days ago
this is why I can never live in Japan. there, the justification for rules is literally "because it's a rule". from preschoolers up to the Prime Freaking Minister!
you'd have you literately pull teeth before you could get to the original cause or thought process behind a rule.
of course there are autistic ppl there. they often get ostracized for sense of justice. literally. "seigikan"(正義感) is often unironically mentioned as a reason why someone is difficult to work with. the society also expects members to forgive illogical behavior by not mentioning "seiron"(正論) aka facts/logic.
at least in some western countries, ppl sometimes have the decency to feel embarrassed to complain about others' upright behavior. (i don't love western countries either)
forkDestroyer -1 points 7 days ago
And yet there are autistic people that live in Japan and do fine with this system, so OP's post must not be accurate.
RichardNixos 2 points 7 days ago
See also: ロジハラ ("logical harassment")
TrackenDaKracken 1 point 8 days ago
I'm right there with you, but what would be the point of acquiring the label be, too?
I mean, I've made it this far without the label.
CrabAndBroom 1 point 7 days ago
I'm in camp "not diagnosed but something ain't braining."
Stolas 10 points 6 days ago
I dislike this as a concept because I've seen it applied to other groups, and it's almost always used as an excuse to ignore certain social norms that are clearly in place to keep people from hurting each other.
Hadriscus 9 points 6 days ago
This really hits home, so much so it's uncanny. As a child, constantly questioning the rules got me in trouble a lot. But that wasn't the hard part. The hard part was observing I was alone in doing this, completely alone. Nobody else my age seemed remotely interested in the "why", and seemed to have no problem complying with rules they didn't understand. That was true for both school rules and maths class : what's the application of this theorem? ->do not concern yourself with this, I'd hear. The adults were quick to scold me for something that was intrinsically natural, because they thought I was challenging their authority. I was just trying to understand. I was unfit for this world and it nearly broke me on several occasions.
TheHooligan95 3 points 6 days ago
Not just as a child, but as an adult too unfortunately. And then, when you understand why , and you know when or when not to follow it because you understand when a reasonable exception arises, you'll be scolded and derided just for having an independent mind
abigscaryhobo 8 points 7 days ago
I follow the rules unless they don't make sense to me, I must be autistic and neurodivergent omg so quirky.
People, we can just remark on things, we don't need a unique identifier for every observable opinion in the world. I know its part of finding belonging and community, but you aren't neurodivergent for questioning the way the world works, you're critical of your surroundings and that's a good thing
UnderpantsWeevil 6 points 7 days ago
"My superpower is I don't listen" is a thing I see repeated way too often on social media.
bridgeenjoyer 8 points 8 days ago
Shit I thought this was ADHD but maybe its more autism. Literally since I was 5 I recall thinking to myself that unless I know the exact reasoning behind a task I will not do it. I'm still this way at work. If its an easy but meaningless task I'll take a whole day to do it. Difficult but meaningful task? I'm done in an hour.
ObtuseDoorFrame 7 points 8 days ago
Same! Over the course of my life I've frequently alienated managers at work because I always ask them to explain the rules they talk about and they interpret that as "talking back" and think of me as a rebel with an attitude problem. It's annoying.
These days I ask them to explain a rule because it will help me REMEMBER the rule, which is technically true and doesn't offend them as much.
RememberTheApollo_ 7 points 8 days ago
I partly disagree. They won’t follow the rules because they have their own way of doing something, right or wrong, not simply because they reject following rules. That also doesn’t mean they won’t follow a rule they initially rejected if they FAFO the reason for the rule.
As for being pissed when others don’t follow the rules, 100% true. Whether it’s office favoritism allowing someone to get ahead rather than doing the work, or someone taking cuts in line. That’ll blow a fuse.
DarkSirrush 6 points 8 days ago
The middle ground is having the rule be properly explained, but it contradicts logic so badly that the rule must not be followed, because its fucking stupid and only an idiot would follow that rule.
grrgyle 10 points 7 days ago
Yah not loving how nd just becomes whichever one you're thinking of, or just some vague difference. It's like the "Asian" of cognitive differences.
Like ocd and bpd exist, for examples.
I mean I do it sometimes too, but it does exclude
reksas 6 points 7 days ago
I'll just do what causes least harm / most positive things. If following some obscure rule doesnt require worthwhile effort from me then might as well, in case something goes wrong. If there isnt any logical reason to suspect ignoring the rule would cause harm then I'll just put it lower on the priority about how things are done.
Until i actually know better, i dont want to assume anything poorly explained is irrelevant.
TheTechnician27 21 points 8 days ago
If it's any comfort, a lot of posts here are just a quirky, autism-flavored horoscope. With a neurodevelopmental disorder that both affects tons of areas of cognition/social development and is situated on a pretty broad spectrum, you're probably going to find ways of understanding rules in people with autism are generally different than in neutotypical people.
I don't know of any good studies that explore rule learning in autistic children/people generally, but I can imagine – even as someone autistic who vaguely relates to the post – that the experience is much more diverse than these "autistic people be like"-type Tumblr posts.
Also, this post is clearly substituting "neurodiversity" for "the neurodiversity I specifically have", given "neurodivergent" is extremely wide-ranging to include things like dyslexia and Tourette's
cinoreus 1 point 7 days ago
That's cause it's different for people even within the spectrum. Like, I'm suspecting I'm autistic. And large part of it is poor motor neuron coordination and having a poor sense of prioritising things. Plus difficulties with expressing myself and socialising that has persisted since my childhood.
Plus for some people it's aesthetic. The only reason I'm even considering getting a diagnosis cause life's genuinely getting too hard for me, to the point I was crying several times a day, and that's in a relatively benign work environment.
Look I don't mind people calling themselves autistic just cause they feel like it(cause it reduces social barriers for people who genuinely are autistic), just don't start generalising.
Also if you don't mind, can I ask you how was life for you, so I get an Idea for myself slightly better?
ItsMeForRealNow 5 points 7 days ago
To me not having middle ground means just not enough description of the scenarios and how the rule applies. If I see a list of several caveats and inapplicable situations, I'm very likely gonna develop some sort of statistical reason the rule applies differently sometimes.
HubertManne 5 points 7 days ago
another one that would indicate im apparently not neurodivergent because I have a hard time not following rules regardless. Like to my detriment. Unless i find them like morally wrong.
UnrepententProcrastinator 5 points 7 days ago
Not playing a tabletop game with you.
HubertManne 4 points 7 days ago
fair but I do understand the concept of house rules. rules just have to be agreed on before the game starts.
Doc_Crankenstein 1 point 6 days ago
Pffft. This made me giggle more than it probably should have.
kestrel7_7 1 point 7 days ago
Fuck yeah I cheat at Candyland, motherfucker. Watch out!
disregardable 5 points 8 days ago
I cannot relate to the first part. I love rules. I'm never like, that's a stupid rule. I'm like, yay a rule, I will absorb this and follow it forever, so I don't do the wrong thing.
disregardable 3 points 8 days ago
I've never been in that situation, but I would inform both of them and ask for guidance. Or, if it's a kind of situation where like, a sign posted says one thing but the person in front of me is directing me to do something else, I will do what the person in front of me is directing me to do.
wraekscadu 4 points 8 days ago
An expectation to follow rules without an acceptable explanation, when the rule follower has not given consent previously to the rule maker to expect this is authoritarian behavior. Fuck authoritarian behavior and fuck authoritarians. I can't see how this is just a "oooh they're just autistic" thing ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
peopleproblems 3 points 8 days ago
Even if the explanations and evidence line up well, if there are obvious loopholes and pitfalls, I'll have problems with it. A lot of problems with it.
... see most social rules
ngwoo 2 points 6 days ago
This is only noble if you believe that autism gives an infallible ability to determine the reasonableness of rules and a perfect knowledge of how rules came to be, which it doesn't. The end result of this attitude is "I'll follow the rules I want to follow, and ignore the ones I don't", which is indistinguishable from a neurotypical asshole.
Malfeasant 8 points 6 days ago
No. The key is the questioning. If the answer is "don't question it" or "I don't know" or "we've always done it that way" it's not worthy of respect. Not following rules we don't like does not require asking any questions, and also can be done just as well when we already know the answers.
TubularTittyFrog 1 point 6 days ago path: 0 26194358 26194917, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
HalfSalesman 0 points 6 days ago
No you fuck.
Allistics don't question the rules but then also bend them frequently. Break them when no one is looking.
Autistics question rules constantly and when a rule survives the questioning they view it as a slight against humanity when anyone fails to follow it perfectly. They virtually never break rules they respect, even when no one is looking.
SethTaylor 2 points 7 days ago
Life for most of us is just following a bunch of laws you may or may not agree with so you can keep working 40+ hours a week and spending all your money on basic survival
Strider 1 point 2 days ago
And yet, it's about training and conditioning.
The chance that you'll skip it is higher than with someone who never does.
I know I'm nitpicking but it's technically correct.
grrgyle 2 points 7 days ago
Conversely, if someone is honest and says, "this is just how I like it I'm not really sure why" I'll at least respect it because they were honest, and a silly (little) rule that exists because of some cope or something is something I can relate to.
pineapple 1 point 2 days ago
This is not always true at all. I used to be the kind of person to always follow the rules just because they exist. I have a neurodivergent friend who still does and always gets worried when stepping slightly out of line.
jenings 1 point 8 days ago
I have a self described neurodivergent coworker who has recently started leaving work around 30 mins early when it’s our job description to shut the place down. He reasons that if he skips lunch (because of his heroic dose of adderal) he earns the right to leave early. 🙃
TokesGirlDragon 1 point 7 days ago
Yoo..so that means im neurodivergent?? Cause I do this ya'll
spongebollocks 5 points 7 days ago
mfer you use lemmy. of course you are.
TokesGirlDragon 1 point 6 days ago
Um..im sorry did you just call me a motherfucker? Lol 🤣🤣Im not one. But also, Im not believing i am neurodivergent. Im stating just a general curious question. Cause everyone can be different, and not be diagnosed with that. And i do follow rules once i understand them. Cause some people wont explain it fully at first, or even go all the way on them. I was also being somewhat sarcastic asking cause that stuff doesnt mean you can be fully neurodivergent. and me using this platform doesnt mean that either. Let me just make that clear✌
Doc_Crankenstein 6 points 6 days ago
Answering "because [arbitrary authority figure] said so" is the fastest way to get me to do the exact opposite of the rule strictly out of spite.
Doc_Crankenstein 5 points 6 days ago
Boo hoo, I don't make a good wage slave. That's your best rebuttal?
glitchdx -1 points 6 days ago
How do you intend to survive until the glorious revolution in which we overthrow capitalism and guillotine all the billionaires? Between now and then, you still have to pay rent, still have to buy groceries, still have to (if applicable) take the kids to school, and tons of other non-negotiable expenses. I've had too many coworkers with bad attitudes, no regard for safety, and an unwillingness to pretend to give a shit. I ask such people: how long do you think you'll make it until you're begging your parents to let you move back in? I'll be right there with you when it's time to burn it all down, but until then, don't be a pain in my ass while I'm actually working.
Malfeasant 3 points 6 days ago
I held a job for 9 years that expected that of me for at least half of that time, and I was miserable. Towards the end of my time there, I was getting migraines at least once a week. After I quit, no more migraines, at least for a year maybe more. Now I've found a job that doesn't expect me to submit to arbitrary authority. In fact now when I butt heads with people over stupid rules, management backs me up. I've even been promoted to work closer with the people who I butt heads with because it improves our product in the long run. Point being, we all have our very particular sets of skills, and if an employer doesn't want to make use of them, fuck them and find another.
autism
@lemmy.world
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This is a community for people with Autism to be themselves. All neurotypes are welcome.
Community: ::: spoiler Values
- Acceptance
- Openness
- Understanding
- Equality
- Reciprocity
- Mutuality
- Love :::
Rules
- No abusive, derogatory, or offensive post/comments e.g: racism, sexism, religious hatred, homophobia, gatekeeping, trolling.
- Posts do not need be related to autism, off-topic discussions are allowed. This is a safe space where people with autism can feel comfortable discussing whatever they feel like discussing, as long as it does not violate the standing rules.
- Do not request donations.
- Be respectful in discussions.
- Do not post misinformation.
- Mark NSFW content accordingly.
- Do not promote Autism Speaks.
- General Lemmy World rules.
- No bots. Humans only.
Encouraged
- Open acceptance of all autism levels as a respectable neurotype.
- Funny memes.
- Respectful venting.
- Describe posts of pictures/memes using text in the body for our visually impaired users.
- Welcoming and accepting attitudes.
- Questions regarding autism.
- Questions on confusing situations.
- Seeking and sharing support.
- Engagement in our community's values.
- Expressing a difference of opinion without directly insulting another user.
- Please report questionable posts and let the mods deal with it.
.
Helpful Resources
- Are you seeking education, support groups, and more? Take a look at our list of helpful resources.
go to feed...
autism
@lemmy.world
10477
2318
3843
This is a community for people with Autism to be themselves. All neurotypes are welcome.
Community: ::: spoiler Values
- Acceptance
- Openness
- Understanding
- Equality
- Reciprocity
- Mutuality
- Love :::
Rules
- No abusive, derogatory, or offensive post/comments e.g: racism, sexism, religious hatred, homophobia, gatekeeping, trolling.
- Posts do not need be related to autism, off-topic discussions are allowed. This is a safe space where people with autism can feel comfortable discussing whatever they feel like discussing, as long as it does not violate the standing rules.
- Do not request donations.
- Be respectful in discussions.
- Do not post misinformation.
- Mark NSFW content accordingly.
- Do not promote Autism Speaks.
- General Lemmy World rules.
- No bots. Humans only.
Encouraged
- Open acceptance of all autism levels as a respectable neurotype.
- Funny memes.
- Respectful venting.
- Describe posts of pictures/memes using text in the body for our visually impaired users.
- Welcoming and accepting attitudes.
- Questions regarding autism.
- Questions on confusing situations.
- Seeking and sharing support.
- Engagement in our community's values.
- Expressing a difference of opinion without directly insulting another user.
- Please report questionable posts and let the mods deal with it.
.
Helpful Resources
- Are you seeking education, support groups, and more? Take a look at our list of helpful resources.
go to feed...
Exactly. Put the fucking shopping carts where they belong! But also don't get onto me for riding it into the coral like a bobsled led by imaginary bears.
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