Is anyone else not feeling that patriotic for July 4?

a year ago by yarr to c/nostupidquestions

I was talking to one of my friends and he mentioned staying home on July 4, citing how there are a lot of really ugly things going on in the US.

After thinking about this myself, I'm starting to feel the same way. Instead of being proud of the country, I'm feeling like I'm just another wallet that companies and the government are trying to suck all the money out of.

The cost of living is going up, the housing market is a nightmare, I don't feel very confident in our government at all, the job market is a nightmare...

I think I'll be staying home this year too... anyone else?

MudMan 131 points a year ago

Not being American I always found the whole thing very creepy. Like, North Korean military parade-creepy.

For the record, we don't have anything like that where I'm from, but the closest things we do have are also very creepy. Patriotism in general is extremely not cool, honestly.

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PunnyName 96 points a year ago

I screencapped this many moons ago on Reddit, I feel that it's apropos

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pulsewidth 17 points a year ago

The USA started cracking at the foundations when McCarthyism began, demonizing an ideology that was ultimately about sharing resources. You can draw a straight line between the Red Scare and the anti-socialism proudly shouted by modern Republicans and the MAGA movement today.

For anyone who identifies as conservative, this rabid vilification of socialism has rotted away at even the idea that the government should exist to service the people, let alone advocating for it. So instead they advocate for tearing it all apart and hold firm to the 'rugged individialism', "the Free Market © will provide" nonsense that has never worked as far back in history as we can peer.

Its so toxic, and it serves only the most wealthy. It's gone so far and for so long now that I don't see the lessons being learnt and course correcting with words alone.

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SnotFlickerman 40 points a year ago

It's rooted in all that "American Exceptionalism" propaganda crap, for sure.

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moonlight 31 points a year ago

As an American I never really liked the holiday, (I agree patriotism sucks) but I wouldn't say it's that it really feels creepy other than the few people who really go over the top with it. Most people just use it as an excuse to barbeque and watch / light off fireworks (which I'm just personally not into)

Now for some real North Korea shit, look up videos of the “pledge of allegiance“ in schools. I was always the only one not doing it, but it wasn't until I was an adult that I realized how fucked up it is. Creepy as hell.

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yarr 5 points a year ago

Now for some real North Korea shit, look up videos of the “pledge of allegiance“ in schools. I was always the only one not doing it, but it wasn’t until I was an adult that I realized how fucked up it is. Creepy as hell.

America and North Korea aren't alone in some kind of pledge for the country, are we? I have a memory of Chinese students doing the same type of thing, but I'm not entirely sure.

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moonlight 15 points a year ago

From a quick search it looks like India, Nigeria, Singapore, and the Philippines do as well.

Other countries may have pledges of some sort for special occasions or for new citizens. But having a flag in every classroom that children chant to each morning is not normal.

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MudMan 4 points a year ago

Over here the only similar events I can think of are related to joining the military and taking elected office. And there was significant legal arguing about the last one, to the point where opt-outs and strict limitations were added.

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Jmsnwbrd 3 points a year ago

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amelia -1 points a year ago

I appreciate that you don't tell kids that they have to participate, but honestly, even telling the others to be "respectfully quiet" seems a bit odd to me.

A democratic state is something you pledge allegiance to by actively participating, by making use of your democratic rights and by putting energy into building and shaping the system we all live in. That's what democracy is meant to be, a system of all people working together and valuing the needs and opinions of others, working out the best solutions for everyone through discourse. It's not a religion or a god that you pray to in silence, that's a bit absurd, isn't it?

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Jmsnwbrd 1 point a year ago

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treadful 13 points a year ago

Independence day celebrations are not unique to America.

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thefluffiest 6 points a year ago

In fact, the best ones are about independence from the US

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jaybone 3 points a year ago

Which ones are those?

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thefluffiest -2 points a year ago

Hmm let me see. True former colonies include Cuba, the Philippines and Liberia. The Panama Canal Zone. Hawaii was unceremoniously annexed, as were Guam and Puerto Rico. And a host of smaller islands.

In a broader sense, Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq are also very happy they’re once again independent from the US.

In an even broader sense, most US allies are working for independence from the unreliable US as we speak.

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MudMan 0 points a year ago

We have one of those, and it'd be creepy even if historically it wasn't debatable that the event itself was for the better.

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treadful 3 points a year ago

Fair enough, I just disagree. Gaining independence seems to me like a positive thing worth celebrating. I'm happy whenever I see an ex-colony celebrating their day.

Not saying we Americans don't take it a little far, but hey, it's the one day where you can be patriotic without that creepy vibe.

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davidagain 1 point a year ago

America fought for independence from Britain because the wealth of the nation was being sucked away and spent for the whims of a handful of wealthy people, and because the people were powerless to chose who the government was. If you factor in the insane number of insanely Gerrymandered districts and significant quantities of votes going through Musk's servers with no external scrutiny, a broken electoral college and a supreme court intent on deleting the constitution starting with section 3 of the 14th amendment (and now moving on to the rest of it), removing religious freedom, I see everything that the founding fathers fought for and everything that the civil war was fought for being stamped on by one deluded racist moron and his crazy sycophants and enablers. It was never really freedom from slavery anyway when you have such vast numbers of black men working for no wage in profiteering private prisons for decades just for smoking some pot or stealing some groceries while rich men who do drugs or steal tens of thousands get a slap on the wrist.

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MudMan -1 points a year ago

Yeah, well, that depends on who gained independence from whom and whether you think you're independent now. Also on whether you'd be indepedendent from any guys who'd like to be independent from the now guys if they were to be independent.

See, political independence for a group requires that you align with the idea the group has of itself. I don't know that I have that overlap with any particular political delineation, so I may need an organization a touch more nuanced than an independent, sovereign nation-state.

Also, gonna need some citation on the lack of creepy vibe, as mentioned above.

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TrickDacy -1 points a year ago

How many are on July 4?

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Cethin 5 points a year ago

Patriotism is very cool. Nationalism isn't, which has mostly subverted the term patriot. A patriot stands up when their nation is doing something wrong. They don't blindly believe they're the best, they recognize that there's things they can improve. They fight to make their country better, not to make others worse.

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MudMan 3 points a year ago

That'd be great if it didn't disagree with all available evidence. For all of history patriots have been either cannon fodder or abusive tyrants. On a long enough trajectory, almost inevitably nationalists and eventually imperialists.

One could argue that, much like some flavors of political utopia, internationalism has the advantage of never having been implemented in any practical sense, so they have less of a challenge proving their positive impact, but I'll take it anyway.

Regardless, I find that "making their country better" should be a distant second to "making the world better", and perhaps a close third behind "making the crap you have on hand and the lives of those immediately around you better".

Look, I am not a globalist anarchist. I believe in well structured, effective democratic governments. Maybe I was the right age to look at the EU and think that those don't have to be held to the absurd liberal idea of the nation-state,and that wherever a collective of humans have a common interest there should be governance structured to work with other layers of organization to improve things and enforce rights within that sphere. There is nothing magical about the nation-state layer of government that makes it more spiritually attuned to identity or the needs of the people. It's all administrative stuff as far as I'm concerned.

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Cethin 1 point a year ago

Regardless, I find that "making their country better" should be a distant second to "making the world better", and perhaps a close third behind "making the crap you have on hand and the lives of those immediately around you better".

I find this statement odd. So you think it's best to start local, right? OK, so next from your immediate community, you should expand out, eventually to country, then to world, right? Isn't that the logical progression. From more influence to less? Why is your priority jumping all over?

Look, I am not a globalist anarchist.

Funnily enough, I am an Anarchist. I don't know if I'd call myself a globalist, but probably. I also believe in well structured democratic governments. Those aren't at odds with each other.

Maybe I was the right age to look at the EU and think that those don't have to be held to the absurd liberal idea of the nation-state,and that wherever a collective of humans have a common interest there should be governance structured to work with other layers of organization to improve things and enforce rights within that sphere. There is nothing magical about the nation-state layer of government that makes it more spiritually attuned to identity or the needs of the people. It's all administrative stuff as far as I'm concerned.

I think we're in agreement. This isn't counter to what I said. I'd say it's in unison with it. People should work to improve their governments in any way they can. They should try to reshape it to better represent them. That's what a patriot would do, not just settle for the status quo and assume they're the best possible version there can be.

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MudMan 1 point a year ago

Well, then what fatherland is the patriot beholden to?

Cause that's what the word means.

I get it, particularly in countries where the nation state has overlapped more or less perfectly for a long time it's hard to shed the emotional attachment, but there's no need for it.

See, the reason I go from small to international is precisely that the nation state takes care of itself. The world has agreed that it's the natural resting place of sovereignty and every other scale of governance or administration os derived from it. I don't like that much. I don't resent it, but I also don't give it immediate precedence over any other scale of government.

A patriot may care for whatever arbitrary definition the XVIIIth century put on their identity and be well meaning enough about it. I'm not a patriot. The historical borders of what some consider a nation today have no particular relevance, beyond the fact that they happen to drive some level of administration. If anything, it's the level where the most people decide to infringe on each other's business just because they feel they have a right to ownership over that national identity. I have no particular interest in whitewashing any of that into some supposedly healthy version of patriotism that has very rarely existed in any way.

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obinice 5 points a year ago

Patriotism can be cool, there are (I hope) many things about your nation, it's achievements and communities that you might be proud of.

Nationalism however, not so much. They're closely related (and bad people will try to sneak Nationalism under the radar as Patriotism) but are very different things.

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MudMan 2 points a year ago

I don't know that I agree with this.

Perhaps coming from a place where the notion of "country" and "nation" don't overlap one to one makes it easier to see. I wouldn't really be able to tell you what "my nation" even is, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

I respect and take pride in culture in all its diversity and complexity, in democracy and in the general sense of human decency. Screw all the so-called nations trying to get me to vouch for them as a political unit, though. Political organization is for buiding roads and hospitals, not for pride.

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yarr 3 points a year ago

I don't know, it's kind of like how people like to support their local football team. I think tribalism is somewhat ingrained in our brains. I can't say it's entirely logical, but it seems kind of baked-in to people at some level, like a leftover from pre-history.

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MudMan 1 point a year ago

Well, yeah, but so are plenty of other gross things and you don't see me out there raiding coastal villages just because we've spent longer taking things from each other by force than enforcing some peaceful, democratic social contract.

To be clear, I'm not disagreeing, we have tribalism baked into us. It just happens to suck and we should strive to break past our built-in biases.

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t_berium 2 points a year ago

Patriotism is the little sibling of nationalism, and the boundaries are fluid. I will never understand why people are proud of other people's accomplishments and make them their own. Or is it because people were shat on somewhere else in the world than everyone else? Makes absolutely no sense.

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TimewornTraveler 1 point a year ago

I mean, it's just fireworks. The US does a lot more creepy jingoistic things than fireworks. How many other nations celebrate things by scaring all the local pets? It can't be that uncommon...

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MudMan 1 point a year ago

Things, yeah. National symbology, not as much.

I'll say that I agree with you, though. Americans do way creepier stuff. The first time I attended a US sporting event it felt exactly like being trapped in some ritual for a religion I don't understand. They may as well have been ripping off some poor guy's still beating heart before lowering him into lava and watching it spontaneously burst into flame, for all I cared. I genuinely didn't know what to do with myself for the entire duration of the thing.

I've never been to school there, either. I imagine watching a bunch of children recite their daily indoctrinations must be creepy AF. I'm not sure if it actually happens, though. It's never in American movies.

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SpicyTaint 59 points a year ago

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some_designer_dude 27 points a year ago

Good day to march on your White House, perhaps…

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yarr 11 points a year ago

I thought about this too. In the past I used to go to protests because I felt that if our leaders saw the protest that they might change their mind about something.

Now, so many of our citizens are so insane, they think you won't actually protest unless George Soros pays you. I also can't picture Trump seeing a protest and saying "I think I'll reconsider..." It feels more futile than ever.

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AA5B 21 points a year ago

It’s never futile. Sure, Trump will never listen, never care about anyone whose not himself, never face justice (crap, now you’re depressing me), but what about Al the minion who do his bidding. I mean, they’re evil too, but going deeper ….

This all can’t happen without supporters. Maybe it’s voters who are low information or easily manipulated finally seeing the truth. Maybe it’s federal employees feeling the support to do the right thing. Maybe it’s law enforcement growing shame at how they’ve been used. Maybe it’s judicial branch standing up from being marginalized and corporatized, fighting back against legalized bribery and corroded ethics at the highest court.

The billionaires big bill was passed in the senate on a tie breaker. It would have take only one more senator to be swayed. Big elections coming up in a little over a year- your peers might elect someone who will actually serve them. Various states and cities, corps and law firms are standing up for what’s right: maybe you can get one more

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just_ducky_in_NH 6 points a year ago

I’ve found that it gives hope to those who hate the direction the nation is going, but feel isolated. We are not a tiny minority, and we need to act like it.

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BassTurd 52 points a year ago

Celebrating America hasn't been something to be proud of since before 2001. We had a couple of high points during Obama, but nothing that tipped the scales.

I'm personally disgusted by this place, and anytime I see someone with an American flag anywhere on their person or property, I immediately assume they're a conservative and I think lesser of them. I know that this isn't a reality, but that is what the American flag means to me, and I assume quite a few others.

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HasturInYellow 18 points a year ago

Absolutely like that for me. Or Christians. If I know you're a Christian within 15 min of meeting you, we are not going to be friends.

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BassTurd 3 points a year ago

There a very few notably religious people that I associate with. I have a coworker that was a pastor for years and is still religious. He approaches it in the way I think it should be. We discuss religion as a theory, he doesn't push or tell people what to believe. His belief is that God has his plans and that's between him and each person. If every religious person lived like him, I'd have a lot less issue with it. I don't agree with many of his other beliefs that are born from his religious background, but he's not trying to impose them on anyone or prevent anyone from living their lives.

Other than him, and even still sometimes him, I agree with you. It's like a scarlet letter that was put on volunteerily to say, "hey, I'm a dick and my beliefs are correct and apply to everyone."

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i_am_hiding 2 points a year ago

Honestly as a religious person myself I'm constantly disgusted this isn't the norm.

If the topic of religion ever comes up, the theory is my favourite conversation. I'm not here to sell you on my view of God, and I don't want you to sell me on yours. It's two sides of the same frankly quite interesting coin, and I like learning about the different ways people do things - but I'm not here to make you do things my way. That would be wrong.

And unless the topic comes up organically, it doesn't fucking matter. We can work together or be best mates or whatever and unless you asked, you'd never have to know I was religious.

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magnetosphere 1 point a year ago

In my lifetime, I’ve met ONE very religious Christian who wasn’t a hypocrite. ONE. He was a very nice guy, though, and I hope he and his family are doing well.

The remaining 99.9% of the time, I’m absolutely with you.

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skisnow 10 points a year ago

The people who complain the loudest about disrespecting the flag are the same people who ruined it in the first place.

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Bytemeister 9 points a year ago

Burning it in a discarded toilet next to a truck stop is less disrespectful than this.

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BassTurd 3 points a year ago

If those people didn't have hippcrasy hypocrisy, they'd have nothing.... Well, they'd still have racism, bigotry, and a bunch of other shitty attributes I guess.

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homesweethomeMrL 1 point a year ago

hypocrisy. It is a really weirdly-spelled word.

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BassTurd 2 points a year ago

Lol, I did butcher it. I only Lemmy from my phone, so I'm far more inclined to have typos. When I typed that I remember starting it and clicking on the suggestion to auto fill, but I must not clicked where I thought.

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IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds 44 points a year ago

why celebrate independence day?

it was supposed to be about gaining independence from tyranny.

We're back with kings and tyrants.

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Dogiedog64 42 points a year ago

I've said it before and I'll say it again, but HOW THE FUCK could I EVER be proud of this country anymore??? We've done nothing to deserve respect or patriotism.

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bufalo1973 4 points a year ago

Then maybe it's a day to protest, not to celebrate. Maybe the best way could have been doing a full strike that stopped the country and doing also protests in the streets.

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Puddinghelmet -32 points a year ago

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YiddishMcSquidish 31 points a year ago

Why are you attacking a person who obviously is opposed to the current administration? Like, I understand your sentiment, but this person ain't the one.

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Soggy 2 points a year ago

The "every single American is culpable and therefore my bigotry is excused" energy is getting wild.

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YiddishMcSquidish 5 points a year ago

Hey, you remember when you didn't vote for something and it still happened? Yeah, your should be blamed for it none the less.

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DarthKaren 41 points a year ago

I'm a USAF vet. My ancestors literally fought in the revolutionary war, and signed The Declaration of Independence. I'm going through the motions this year, but I don't feel it at all. I'm pissed that we're multiple stages into a nazi regime. I'm profoundly flabbergasted at how anyone could be for this. How anyone that is for it, can't see that they're going to be the "out" party. Some already are seeing it.

I'm incredibly disappointed that the news has gotten so out of touch that they just rolled over and lapped up the rhetoric. Local news is all sunshine and rainbows while ICE kidnaps people, and a corrupt POtuS breaks the constitution left and right. While he deploys military against its own citizens. While rights are stripped, aided by a corrupt SCOTUS. While the rich get richer off of our backs. While the checks and balances are obliterated.

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ProfThadBach 12 points a year ago

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jwmgregory 7 points a year ago

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DarthKaren 7 points a year ago

I see where you're at. I take no offense. I definitely could be doing more. I can't work either, so it isn't like I don't have the time. Physical issues are my only real hold back. My enlistment was fear of being trapped in an abusive home, as well as feeling like high school didn't offer enough of an education to prepare me. We both have the luxury of doing what we're doing.

However, I offer a few counter points.

What does killing 1 ICE "officer" accomplish? How does that affect change in the right direction? Does this cause others to do the same and follow suit?

We need more that I don't think we're at the point of accomplishing yet. We need a full on civil war. One that I'm not sure how we get to kick off, all at the same time, all across the nation, without it fizzling out quickly.

The problem then comes in how to coordinate that. How do we communicate, nation wide, in a way that is not vulnerable to monitoring and disruption by the very place we're trying to change? How do we coordinate arming and supplies? How do we coordinate movements and operations?

We can't stop at just POtuS either. 99% of it needs to go. Dem leadership has been largely sitting on the bloody nubs that they try to "reach across the aisle" with. SCOTUS and most all other courts are compromised. Plus the billionaires, the behind the scenes assholes, and even state and local governments. It all needs a clean sweep.

We have too comfortable of a life. We're too complacent. We were too far removed from the fascism that spilled over in Europe. We were too padded. It didn't really hit us, in either world war, back here. Our troops came back home and went back to regular life as usual. We had a civil war, but we didn't punish any of the perpetrators. That led us right back where we're at. At the time though, you could survive on your own. Support a family off of the land. There wasn't much of an infrastructure. There was no pain to be felt by the general populace (loss of life aside).

I do think we'll get to full on armed conflict. I feel as though mid terms will be the kicker. I just don't know if armed conflict is where we're at yet. Not that I don't think we should be. It's that the general populace is too comfortable. We, apparently, need our lives to hurt more. To be affected more. Is it sad? Absolutely. Is it very much against everything that the founding fathers envisioned, especially when drafting up the 2nd? Absolutely. They would be completely disgusted with all of us. Myself included.

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jwmgregory 4 points a year ago

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DarthKaren 6 points a year ago

Absolutely no shade my friend. I am absolutely as pissed off as you are. I really wish it would make a difference. Many of us do. It just isn't quite there yet. The stew is close, we just need the vegetables to get ready.

I love the discourse as well. We don't get a feel for everyone's feelings towards things when we don't. Others may even bring up things we hadn't thought about, or an angle we didn't see.

Good luck to you as well!

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bufalo1973 4 points a year ago

The first act that started the Tunisian "Arab Spring" was just one street seller being killed by the police.

There is no "correct" spark. And nobody knows what will spark a war until it has happened.

Maybe some guy that gets shot by ICE, maybe some guy that kills an ICE thug, maybe something else.

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barryamelton 4 points a year ago

The fix is not killing ICE officers.

The civil rights movements of the 60s, Jim Crow, etc, won by being willing to be beaten. By voluntarily entering a cafe and sitting there waiting to be served like a human being, meanwhile being willing to be called names, dropped food and drinks onto them, burnt with cigarettes, abused.

That willingness and perseverance in wanting to be recognised as the human beings they are awoke the rest of the population.

Pacifist demonstrations and matches are a way to achieve that. They are displays for your fellow colleagues, not for the government you want to depose. Make clear that they are pacifist. Prepare and inform the people going. Sit down if you are charged. Stop violent people there. Etc. Make obvious that the fascist are fascists that way and say and invigorate people to your side.

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banshee 3 points a year ago

I find the bit about believing the lies we're fed as somewhat naive. We're all on a journey, and everyone starts in a different place, with unique foundations.

My current opinions vary wildly from those held 20 years ago. Change is a good thing, and I think it should be expected as the norm.

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FlyingCircus 3 points a year ago

If you want to be effective at changing the system, killing random ICE Nazis won’t do it. Everyone here is advocating peaceful protest, but that also won’t do it - or at least, not by itself.

Instead, consider direct action - sabotage of the means of production that prop up the fascist state.

Take a listen to Rev Left’s interview with Palestine Action to learn what I’m talking about: https://revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.com/...

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some_guy 40 points a year ago

I haven't felt patriotic for July 4 since I was a teenager. And I grow more aliented every year.

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RadioFreeArabia 38 points a year ago

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reddit_sux 5 points a year ago

He seems to be the pinnacle of US presidents. It has only been going down since him.

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TrickDacy 37 points a year ago

What the fuck would I have to be proud of? The US has been on a downward trend for a long time and that's accelerating

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VitoRobles 10 points a year ago

Yeah but before, we could eat BBQ and blow off fireworks and pretend like America is going to fix itself.

Literally nobody I know is doing a cook out.

We have some scheduled on July 12th.

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Jmsnwbrd 3 points a year ago

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yarr 2 points a year ago

I hear you and I agree

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RememberTheApollo_ 32 points a year ago

Flags have become a warning over the last decade or so about the person waving it. It no longer has the hope of a better America, solidarity, or welcome; it’s a symbol of a myopic, selfish, aggro, uneducated person full of performative nationalism and real hatreds.

Our independence was supposed to free the people of kings and tyrants. It’s been 249 years since 1776, we have undone what the Constitution authors fought for.

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squaresinger 9 points a year ago

Our independence was supposed to free the people of kings and tyrants. It’s been 249 years since 1776, we have undone what the Constitution authors fought for.

That's what happens if you stick with a quarter-millennium old prototype of a semi-democratic system.

The constitution was revolutionary and ground-breaking, a quarter millennium ago. But still running that old piece of toilet paper as the basis of a democratic system in 2025 is like driving a Ford Model T today and claiming that it still is the latest and greatest automobile ever created.

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RememberTheApollo_ 8 points a year ago

I always find irony in the fact that the US helped set up better forms of government in the countries it fought in WW2, Japan and Germany, than it could make better in its own country.

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squaresinger 4 points a year ago

It does make sense though. The main motivator for politicians is power. That means, naturally political systems flow towards maximizing power for those in power, that's just the natural progression.

To change this, major political upheavals are necessary, so basically events where the whole old leadership is tossed out and the new leadership can try to setup something to stop the same thing from happening again.

WW2 was perfect for that. All those countries were in need of a completely new political system and thus they could be built better from the ground up.

The US never had any event like that (apart maybe from the civil war).

To change the system without such an event, two thirds of all relevant politicians would have to vote for changing the system that brought them to power. Not likely to happen.

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TonyTonyChopper 4 points a year ago

In terms an American can understand: "Imagine a car..."

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villainy 2 points a year ago

This is why we have constitutional amendments. It's been extended a good bit over the last centuries. The tools are there but nobody wants to, or can agree on how to, use them.

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squaresinger 4 points a year ago

Have you looked at the amendments? So far there have only been 27 of them over 236 years. Ten of them were created within a year of the constitution being created. They were basically Zero-Day-Patches, not actual amendments, and two amendments only exist to nullify each other (18 and 21) which leaves 15 amendments over 235 years (one of which was actually also created within the first year and only ratified 200 years later).

The last time an amendment was proposed was 54 years ago and the last one ratified was 33 years ago.

Not counting the Zero-Day-Patches, not a lot of these amendments actually change anything fundamental. Notable ones are 12 (governs the election of VP), 13-15 and 19 (civil rights), 17 (election of senators), 22 (president's term limit) and 25 (succession of the president).

Notably absent from the amendments is anything that changes the core political system or electoral system.

Compare that to other countries. In the time that the US constitution hat 15 minor amendments, France had a total of 15 complete constitution re-writes, not even counting amendments. 15 full new constitutions.

Germany had 69 constitutional amendments since 1949 (76 years, so almost one amendment per year, compared to the 1/16 amendments per year in the USA).

But by far the biggest issue is that a constitutional amendment cannot actually fix fundamental systemic issues. The people who have the power to change the constitution came to power within the current system, so if they fundamentally change how the system works (e.g. by repairing the electoral system in a way that more than two parties can be relevant), they are directly cutting into their own power, so of course they won't do that.

That's what you need major constitutional crises for (like e.g. Europe after WW2), so that the constitution can be re-written from scratch, fixing the issues that lead to the crisis.

But the US has been too big to fail for too long and thus there never was anything big enough to take down the US so that it needed to be restarted from scratch. The closest they came to was the civil war, but they didn't take the opportunity to actually overhaul the system. Probably because it was still too early and there wasn't much of a precedent of how to build a better democratic system.

But who knows, at the current rate it might be likely that the US is quite close to another chance to re-write the constitution.

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Allero 31 points a year ago

State-level patriotism is always bullshit to begin with.

That's how you're tricked into loyalty based on the most arbitrary reasons.

Be the messenger of humanity and get curious about the Universe. People are brothers, and there's no pride in being born in one plot of land over the other.

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Bloomcole 4 points a year ago

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Valmond 2 points a year ago

The state should be you, the citizens.

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Allero 1 point a year ago

The state should not exist. We are people of Earth, and we should not be divided by someone. Divided, we are powerless to make a global change, and those who divide us reap all the benefits of this bullshit system.

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Valmond 1 point a year ago

Can't answer your post, it's too deep (I'm on Connect, it doesn't handle deep posts very well) so I'm answering your latest post here.

After WW2 (that Russia started with Germany):

Russia occupied half of Europe by force, calling it the soviet union. Most countries didn't have a say and didn't want to be in the union, and no one was allowed to leave. Some were outright invaded like Czechoslovakia.

The USA has military bases all around the world yes, but most of them are wanted by the countries, and if asked the USA will leave (see France for example). The USA has not tried to annex one single country.

If you can't see the difference we'll then I just can't discuss more subtle things with you like countries and borders and gouvernances. So yeah it took a turn there I guess, a shame if it ends, because it's been interesting!

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Valmond -3 points a year ago

So we shouldn't band together, to band together.

You should calm down your drug use IMO.

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Bloomcole 0 points a year ago

That is only in theory, like the copcept of democracy

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AmbiguousProps 28 points a year ago

I haven't "celebrated" the fourth in nearly a decade for this reason. On top of that fireworks are pretty bad for everything and those with PTSD.

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Asafum 8 points a year ago

On top of that fireworks are pretty bad for everything and those with PTSD.

My coworkers dog would thank you very much as well for not shooting off fireworks. He said he usually drives out of town for a few hours until it dies down because his dog gets terrified :(

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AmbiguousProps 3 points a year ago

Yeah, forgot to mention pets. All of mine hate the fireworks, so it makes for a miserable time all around.

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SkyeStarfall 2 points a year ago

And it's not just pets either, wildlife also gets affected by firework

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NikkiDimes 26 points a year ago

As an immigrant to the US, I've always found the blind patriotism commonplace here to be very strange. It feels even more alienating now than ever before.

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Bloomcole 9 points a year ago

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devolution 26 points a year ago

I’ve never been more ashamed to be an American.

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ivanafterall 8 points a year ago

I'm a-shamed to be an A-merican,

Where at least now I can't see.

And I won't forget the libs who cried,

Who gave that right to me.

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devolution 4 points a year ago

Lemmy sings

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mrgoosmoos 1 point a year ago

well, at least you've got the knowledge that I'm proud of you for that

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BarneyPiccolo 25 points a year ago

Our country is under MAGA Nazis rule, and that is nothing to celebrate. Independence Day should be a Day of Resistance, until the MAGA Nazis lose their control.

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GrayBackgroundMusic 20 points a year ago

Havent felt proud to be an American in a long while. I'm proud of loving thy neighbor as myself, not lining the pockets of billionaires. I hate that I'm powerless to do much. Representative democracy? My ass. No one represents me. They're all aristocrats. "it's one banana, Michael. What could it cost, $10?"

I'm not bitter about it at all. /s

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Peter_Arbeitslos 19 points a year ago

Kinda interesting how you US-Americans have a certain day for being even more patriotic than the average US-patriotism rest of the time. As a German I personally haven't felt patriotic at any point in my life and most of the people I know (probably more left-leaning than German average) always looked at your patriotism (espacially on July 4th) with a certain lack of understanding. Why even be patriotic? Why always raise the US-flag? Why are there Florida men running through hurricanes with an US-flag? I know independence and stuff, but still why celebrate your patriotism even more on a specific date, even as a more left-leaning person?

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yarr 13 points a year ago

I mean, I'd think of it as like being proud of your home and the accomplishments of the country. That doesn't seem very odd to me. It's just that lately, I feel like as a nation we are just making so many mistakes and I feel ashamed, not proud of the country.

I have no enthusiasm to raise the US flag this July 4th, excepting maybe showing it upside down as a sign of distress.

When I think about the US and its future, I just get a sinking feeling and I don't feel very happy about it. I'm ashamed how far this country has fallen in the past two decades.

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ohulancutash 8 points a year ago

It hasn’t really fallen, it’s just saying the quiet part out loud for once.

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Gold_E_Lox 4 points a year ago

fr, it's honestly just business as usual except some white people are facing material consequences and their government is being too obvious with its imperialism.

US was built on fascist doctrine and will continue that legacy until systematic change.

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Peter_Arbeitslos 3 points a year ago

proud of your home and the accomplishments of the country

Don't really understand that either. I could understand celebrating the date at which you got an united democracy, that's certainly an accomplishment. Even that happend a quarter millennium ago, you (even your grandmother) didn't take part in it and nowadays there's no British monarchy you can annoy by being a democracy, but celebrating democracy as a concept always is great. But you don't do that. All what I see from the Atlantic Ocean's other side is some people celebrating something which is written under "Nationality" in their passports. I personally can't celebrate something as complex/indefinite as a country. I don't think complex really is the best word for it, but what I mean is that countries never are only good and also "country" itself is a term so obscure and indefinite. The country existed for nearly 250 years, billions of people lived in it and some terrible stuff happend in and because of it. Wars and crimes and war crimes of leading personell, etc. Surely also some good stuff, but how to seperate that? You simply can't. Is Ronald Reagan part of what you're celebrating, is Donald Trump part of it? Is democracy part of it? Is some random 1800s-farmer part of it? Are people even part of it and if no why? Are the country's borders part of it? Is the tree standing in your backyard part of it? You can't ignore the killing of civilians in Vietnam war while including democracy or can you? What's home? Is it your family? Your house? Both?

One thing is for sure: You aren't the country, you just live at some place on the world which happens to be territory of something named "USA". Same for me, I have been born at some place which happens to be territory of something called "Germany". Why should I be proud about the place where I was born? That's no achievement, I didn't even contribute to it. I'm proud that I managed to contribute to democracy by protesting and voting. I also felt proud about the A I got in some elementary school test. I'm really proud about switching from Windows to Arch Linux in less than 2 hours. I may some day feel proud for my children while watching them doing something great. I contributed to all of this more or less directly and I can feel proud about it for that reason. But why should I feel proud about a country? Germany is nothing I'm responsible for, the (current path of the) USA is nothing you are responsible for. If you were responsible for it, why shouldn't I be too?

We can't feel proud about it, we can't feel ashamed for it, because it isn't our fault. However we can change the current situation. Changing the world, having the courage to try it, is something we can feel proud about.

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yarr 4 points a year ago

This is just such an odd post for me. I know people that have Nordic or Germanic ancestors and love to celebrate and love that part of their heritage with yearly parties or festivals. Isn't it a normal human reaction to feel proud of your "tribe"?

I'm not claiming to have invented the USA, and sure, I was just born here. I didn't land on the moon myself, but I feel proud of the USA when I think about Neil Armstrong doing it.

The USA isn't all bad, and my life would have had a different track if I was born somewhere else. I think you might be reading too much into it? July 4 isn't some kind of cult meeting over here where we all chant over the flag and run around in robes. For most people, there's maybe a parade, a cookout or two, and a day off.

Of all the problems in the USA, people celebrating July 4 or feeling some national pride is way down on my list, and I'd say somewhat typical of people to feel proud about their home.

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Peter_Arbeitslos 4 points a year ago

people that have Nordic or Germanic ancestors and love to celebrate and love that part of their heritage with yearly parties or festivals.

To be honest: Sounds like some nazi stuff, at least that would be my first impression if someone did it here.

Isn’t it a normal human reaction to feel proud of your “tribe”?

Sarcasm joins the room May be, but killing each other was a normal human reaction for millenia. Sadly still is today sometimes.

NASA is great and I really like it, I feel good for humanity because it is able to do different thing than killing. I wouldn't call that proud, because I didn't contribute to it. Even space travelling is to complex to like all of it, moon landing was part of some foolish trial of strength on earth- No, I won't overanalyse it.

I know your July 4th isn't a cult meeting, but patriotism seems like something invented for people who have nothing they can feel proud about, because they haven't archived something to be proud about. (Don't take that personal.) At the same time patriotism tends to sperate different groups of people which shouln't be seperated since they all are part of humanity and could archive great stuff together. It's the one thing evil persons can rely on if they want to create a scapegoat to make people fight this scapegoat instead of seeing that they –the people– all are just part of humanity and should revolt against their evil leaders.

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FlashyWierz 6 points a year ago

July 4th is the day our nation was founded which is what merits the fanfare. I would also say that the "displays of patriotism" you may see are largely cherry picked examples. Your typical american doesn't wear american flag regalia, much less own an american flag and wave it around.

Right now, the reason you are seeing such a pronounced amount of patriotism for Independence day, and I use that term loosely, is due to it being both the 250th anniversary and the current unpopular administration trying to project an alternate reality where they are in tune with the will of the people and establish legitimacy.

There is a lot that can probably be said about the erosion of patriotism in the US as it was co-opted by conservative groups in order to push unpopular policies throughout our nations brief span of existence and it likely ties into the destruction of our education system, but I'd rather let someone more knowledgable tackle that topic.

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Peter_Arbeitslos 2 points a year ago

I deliberately exaggerated, but I dont't understand patriotism in general (see comment under OPs response on my comment).

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FlashyWierz 2 points a year ago

Ah, I misunderstood then. To oversimplfy patriotism is being able to love the people, thoughts, and accomplishments of a community (country) that you belong to while seeing and understanding its flaws.

I've seen some other comments here describe it to various extremes but there is a clear line between patriotism and nationalism (e.g. Nazis, MAGA, etc) A patriot understands that their country isn't infallible, a nationalist beilieves it is.

For some people the only thing they have is this sense of belonging to a group, and for others this sense of belonging is what incites them to implicitly care for the success of others.

To clarify not everyone is a patriot, nor a nationalist. People have a wide range of feelings and perceptions on the idea of a nation and their place in it.

I apologize if this doesn't provide more clarity. The topic of patriotism is largely a philisophocal one that would take more time to yap about than I have on my lunch break lol

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allidoislietomyself 3 points a year ago

Most of us just like the day off from work, or the holiday pay if you have to work. and that's where it ends.

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HobbitFoot 3 points a year ago

The USA has never had an event to make Americans from shame for the country. It isn't like the USA hasn't done shameful acts, but there hasn't been a reconging of what the country has done.

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EndlessNightmare 17 points a year ago

What, exactly, should I be proud of?

A nation that is moving backwards on human rights, increasing wealth inequality, and got really “mask off” about supporting genocide. A nation that is inherently dysfunctional and wreathed in corruption.

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DearMoogle 16 points a year ago

I think that’s normal considering everything going on.

By the way, I live in the CA bay area. Interestingly I went grocery shopping today and no kidding -I felt like I was in a small town in the midwest or something. I looked around and it was mostly older white people shopping, like you couldn’t help but notice. I told my bf, wtf are we in Idaho or something lol this doesn’t feel like the bay area?

I think there’s a combination of people being tired of increasing inflation and burnt out by the barrage of shit going on in the news. I don’t imagine minorities, particularly immigrant families are feeling very patriotic right now. Or people are straight up worried about ICE kidnappings. Which by the way, I heard from a neighbor that ICE has been walking into the hospital she works at and waiting outside to snatch people. Terrible…

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fodor 15 points a year ago

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Saleh -1 points a year ago

Not necessarily. Problem is when patriotism is not defined positively through your countries achievments and striving for self improvement, but through negativity to other people.

The US patriotism evidently revolves around the latter, so does most patriotism i have witnessed in European countries. I cant speak for so many other countries as i havent visited them enough.

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CXORA 2 points a year ago

So do any countries exhibit what you call positive patriotism, or is this purely a theoretical objection?

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Saleh -2 points a year ago

Countries as a whole? That is difficult to say. Typically you won't here much from such countries, as they don't enforce themselves on others.

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foggy 14 points a year ago

I believe you're supposed to fly a flag upside down in times of distress.

I think it would be wildly powerful for some cities to flip their flags for the 4th.

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Bytemeister 4 points a year ago

I've never had a flag out front of my house.

The day that orange fucker kicks the bucket, I'm putting in a flagpole and flying that bitch at full mast.

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shalafi 3 points a year ago

My shotgun's flag is nailed upside down.

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Kolanaki 14 points a year ago

I've never felt patriotic. It's not like I chose to be here and, frankly, the more I learned about the rest of the world, the more I dislike about my own home.

Also fireworks are boring af unless you're manipulating them to be more dangerous and blowing things up. Like hammering down a whistler and tossing it into a porta potty where an ICE agent is taking a shit.

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MummysLittleBloodSlut 13 points a year ago

I'm going out to a march on the 4th of July. We're protesting for independence from America

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grue 13 points a year ago

I'm surprised there aren't massive protests scheduled for July 4.

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pineapplelover 5 points a year ago

I believe there are

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EarthshipTechIntern01 12 points a year ago

People around the country have stood up to make change.

Our politicians haven't done good for the people.

Take back the power.

Join a No Kings March on July 4th

Celebrate the awesome people of this country, join in.

We want massive change. Politicians may act deaf to anything but money. The money flow changes when we stand together

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WanderWisley 12 points a year ago

Same I will be working on the 4th so I’ll just be making good hoilday pay while most of my trump supporting coworkers will be celebrating the downfall of this country. Fuck this shit, fuck everyone who is onboard with the current situation of this country. Stay safe everyone.

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paperazzi 12 points a year ago

Canadian here and we celebrated the fuck out of our national holiday which just passed. We have a stronger feeling of solidarity than we've felt in a long time. Despite the threats of annexation and shifting tariffs, we are feeling more hopeful than we have in many years, possibly because we're making new friends in the global sandbox and coming into our own power now instead of constantly kowtowing to the USA in all matters.

Except a few folks in Alberta who would love to be part of the modern Nazi regime. Fuck them, tho.

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AstralPath 8 points a year ago

Personally, I'm not feeling that same vibe. I think the solidarity against the US is a very good thing, but the sheer amount of ways Canada is just "America Light" is very depressing. Its to the point that our flag has been so sullied by absolutely shit tier movements in the last 5 years that I can't stand to see it anymore.

Every time I see a private flag pole, bumper stickers or anything kind of patriotic merch my knee jerk reaction is "I bet this dude's a fuckwad." I know that I'm painting with a huge and shitty brush but I just can't even fight against it anymore. I know it's wrong. I just don't care, and that makes me sad.

I live comfortably here, but given even a minutely convenient reason to emigrate I think I'd take it.

Canada is a car infested, anti-human shit hole just like America. To paraphrase Steve Harris of Iron Maiden a bit "We oil the jaws of the war capitalist machine and feed it with our babies immigrants."

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paperazzi 3 points a year ago

I've felt like that for years, too. But Canadians boycotting en masses, then soundly rejecting mini-Trump has given me hope. Since then, our leader has been reaching out to other countries to form new relationships and deals. We just signed a rare earth minerals deal with Greenland, of all places.

Yes, Canada has been hamstrung by US demands but the vice-grip they've had over us has deteriorated. This wouldn't have happened if not every single other country in the world was going through the same thing. So it feels a bit like a rebirth to me, with the possibility of finally being able to come into our own as a nation.

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Hossenfeffer 12 points a year ago

Being a Brit, for years I've jokingly referred to the 4th of July as 'Rebellion Day' to my USian friends. Not sure I'm joking any more, just hopeful. Go on. Rebel!

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Colonel_Panic_ 1 point a year ago

Overthrow your tyrannical government, you won't.

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ramenshaman 12 points a year ago

Going to be spending the 4th building guillotines in my garage

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pineapplelover 4 points a year ago

Can I help?

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ramenshaman 2 points a year ago

The more the merrier

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cley_faye 11 points a year ago

I find it reassuring that some people are not proud of grabbing random people off the street to send them to their death with a smile.

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expr 4 points a year ago

That's the majority of Americans. Beyond what was almost certainly a stolen election (large scale, billionaire-bankrolled propaganda, campaigns, voter disenfranchisement, and probably voting machine manipulation), Trump's disapproval rating since starting that shit has skyrocketed.

We are in an awful fascist quagmire of a situation that we are going to have to fight to free ourselves from, but that doesn't mean that the actions of this administration actually represent us.

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anachrohack 10 points a year ago

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tarknassus 10 points a year ago

Aww. Please celebrate - don't give the orange turd the satisfaction of destroying yet more American culture. Also, I won't be happy posting my favourite annual meme:

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Goodmorningsunshine 16 points a year ago

But celebrate what? The opening of our concentration camps and the country's fall to the stupidest dictator imaginable? I suppose we could drink to the ashes...

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endeavor 4 points a year ago

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b34k 3 points a year ago

I’ll celebrate a day I don’t have to go to work

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Puddinghelmet -1 points a year ago

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Zezzoz 10 points a year ago

Feeling patriotic towards a country of traitors.

US best values have been lost long time ago.

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vxx 10 points a year ago

Because of Patriotism they had it so easy to turn it into Nationalism and now turn it to fascism.

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spankmonkey 10 points a year ago

I normally enjoy some fireworks every year, but have zero interest this year.

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thatradomguy 10 points a year ago

Why feel patriotic for a country that literally stole/claimed what wasn't theirs to being with? Never felt such a thing for this so called "first world".

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OccamsRazer 0 points a year ago

Whose was it? At what point in history was ownership established and why was it not the previously displaced people's instead? How long does it take to establish ownership, and what means are justified to do so? Who exactly is the United States anyway?

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skeezix 5 points a year ago

World history for millennia has shown that the conquerors write the rules. Ownership is established immediately upon victory. It matters not if you're a yanomamo tribe living 1000 years ago or a modern military 1st world country. The victors write the rules.

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FlyingCircus 2 points a year ago

Isn’t the whole point of civilization to get away from the tyranny of men with sharp sticks? We can’t let the crimes of our ancestors justify modern crimes.

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AA5B 9 points a year ago

I was hoping everyone would turn out for another No Kings event but I guess too many people complained.

If we can’t be proud of the mess we’re in now, maybe we can be proud of the people who speak up, who try to create change. Maybe we can hark back to our origins tearing down oppressive political and corporate systems. Maybe we can hold up the mythical ideas that used to unite us and fight to make them true. It’s our duty as patriotic citizens to set our country on the right path toward one we can be proud of.

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just_ducky_in_NH 3 points a year ago

WELL SAID!

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apfelwoiSchoppen 9 points a year ago

Patriotism is jingoism at this point. Haven't felt that for decades.

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EvilCartyen 9 points a year ago

I imagine almost everyone who's not American, like 95.5% of the world population.

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FollyDolly 8 points a year ago

I'm not doing anything for the forth. Fuck America, I am not celebrating my country, because my country wants me dead. Fuck em.

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Gismonda 8 points a year ago

The ONLY reason I give a shit about July 4th this year is that it’s a long weekend and the last chance we’ll have to spend with family before we move out of state in two weeks.

I’m even glad it’s supposed to rain the entire time, so I won’t even feel pressured to celebrate with fireworks!

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Treczoks 8 points a year ago

4th of July? You mean the Ungrateful Colonists Insurgence Day?

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originalucifer 8 points a year ago

youre not alone

https://lemmy.world/post/32286445

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yarr 5 points a year ago

This link is broken

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originalucifer 5 points a year ago

hmmmm try this

https://lemmy.world/post/32286445

the other link is from an instance with a log in requirement

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yarr 2 points a year ago

Thanks, that works now

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misteloct 8 points a year ago

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daniskarma 8 points a year ago

Not American. But I don't even know when my country's national day is. I know there's one because they always do a military parade with the king and always something goes wrong, and we laugh about it. But I can even tell what day it is until I see it on the news.

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Siegfried 2 points a year ago

You have a good king/gov if they arent bashing swallow patriotism into your skull in school... where are you from?

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daniskarma 5 points a year ago

Spain.

King is a moron, but happily he is just politically powerless.

I mean, there is that kind of nationalism patriots here. We have our share of people talking about "bringing back the spanish empire" or "bring back Franco". And they surely obsess about national day. I just don't care.

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barryamelton 2 points a year ago

Heh, I was thinking the same, didn't know exactly when the day was. So maybe we indeed have something going on for ouselves.

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Siegfried 2 points a year ago

Con todo el enriedo con separatistas qué hay en España hubiera esperado un mayor empuje nacionalista en las escuelas... bien por españa. Acá en Argentina es así, nacionalismo ciego y revisionismo en las escuelas, pero revisionismo selectivo. Un maldito asco.

Traer de vuelta a Franco? Es joda? Pensé que era re contra taboo. Acá a veces se dice "con videla estábamos mejor" pero es más en chiste para decir que hay que mandar todo a la mierda... (espero)

Igual, hagan lo que quieran, yo les tengo un amor ciego a ustedes..

#ConLaCasaDeAustriaEstabamosMejor

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daniskarma 2 points a year ago

Algo ha habido pero no tanto como pudieras imaginar. También yo siempre he hecho oidos sordos, así que igual hay más de lo que yo he visto.

Pero lo de Franco, por desgracia sí, mucha gente dice la frase típica "con Franco estábamos mejor". Algunos lo dicen enserio, otros para molestar. Pero es preocupante. Sobre todo cuando se escucha entre los más jóvenes.

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Bebopalouie 8 points a year ago

I read a few places (I am non american) that there will be no kings protests all over the states on July 4th.

https://www.usatoday.com/...

https://time.com/...

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Blackmist 7 points a year ago

Sounds like a great day for a false flag attack to solidify the masses against a perceived threat.

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andros_rex 7 points a year ago

I get double pay for the holiday, yay!

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solsangraal 7 points a year ago

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AceFuzzLord 7 points a year ago

I haven't been necessarily patriotic for a long time because why pledge allegiance to a single nation? The only reason I really care about July 4 is the fireworks. It's more tradition than anything that I see them.

Anyways, both of his terms make me feel vindicated in not being patriotic in a country.

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hardcoreufo 7 points a year ago

It's been almost 20 years since I felt patriotic. I mostly just comfort the dog and hope the yahoos don't accidentally burn my house down.

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SnotFlickerman 7 points a year ago

I mean I always stay home because I'm an introvert, but yeah, mirroring what other's have already said in this thread, I haven't had much to feel patriotic about since at least the Dubya Bush years. So probably more than 20 years of not feeling it.

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iamdefinitelyoverthirteen 7 points a year ago

I'm boycotting America this year.

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mrgoosmoos 7 points a year ago

I would be very concerned about anybody who is feeling patriotic this year

being hopeful and not having given up is one thing. but patriotic? entirely shameful

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Furbag 7 points a year ago

There's nothing left to be proud of. Just vague platitudes about freedom and performative military worship that have been socially beaten into people since 2001. I have no faith remaining in my fellow countrymen. I am unable to clearly see a future for myself living here as I am now. What is left to be patriotic about?

All the true patriots are dead. They were buried long ago. Modern patriotism is a marketing gimmick. I refuse to be a party to it.

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SolidShake 6 points a year ago

I haven't gone to see fireworks in a few years. Recently I just go to Walmart and buy some big packs and let my kids enjoy lighting them off and just having fun. Plus the long weekend is awesome.

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Treczoks 6 points a year ago

Call for independence from everything GOP and Trump on July 4th?

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imachillin 6 points a year ago

Yep. Staying home, donating, or protesting if something’s going on. It’s just a long weekend to me now. No flag flying at this home for sure… unless it’s a No Kings flag.

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Shirasho 6 points a year ago

My friends and I use it as an excuse to have a get together. None of us use it to celebrate the United States or its independence.

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fireweed 6 points a year ago

FYI the Women's March org is hosting "Free America" protests for the July 4th weekend. See the Women's March site here. Some other groups may be organizing protests too, but from what I've read the WM ones are probably the biggest.

If there's not a scheduled protest nearby there's always the option to make a sign and take to a street corner for a solo protest. If you're feeling especially ambitious there's always making a giant sign to prop up against the chain link at an interstate overpass (I've never done this but it looks fun).

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LovableSidekick 6 points a year ago

Right now I'd call my mood more embarrassed than patriotic.

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billwashere 5 points a year ago

Yeah I’m just sick of all the greed and racism. I just want some MANSA (Make America not suck anymore)

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yarr 5 points a year ago

I would like MANA (Make America Nice Again)

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walktheplank 5 points a year ago

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FlyingCircus 2 points a year ago

You know there are people out there who are actually getting off their couch and fighting?Active revolution isn’t for everyone, but you don’t have to keep normalizing laziness and cowardice. You can instead use your voice to encourage action.

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jaggedrobotpubes 2 points a year ago

Good energy here.

Thank you.

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walktheplank 1 point a year ago

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Goodmorningsunshine 5 points a year ago

Oh goodness no. America has fallen, what the fuck does July 4th mean.

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Shanedino 5 points a year ago

I think you mean No Kings Day.

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umbraroze 5 points a year ago

I thought you guys don't celebrate it that much any more? Heard it got replaced with a Trump Birthday Military Parade Day or someshit. And it sucked so much that nobody is doing holidays anymore. Sorry, I'm in Europe, the news are coming in slowly from the US these days

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expr 5 points a year ago

Not sure what you're referring to, but the 4th hasn't really changed. Maybe you're confusing it with the (laughable) military parade Trump did for his own birthday?

Personally I've long found patriotism to be a pretty abhorrent concept, but I've always enjoyed the opportunity to spend time with my family regardless. To me, the 4th is much more about community than it is the country. And while this country is fucking awful, I do have a pretty great community around me that I'm grateful for.

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Octavio 5 points a year ago

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squaresinger 5 points a year ago

After thinking about this myself, I’m starting to feel the same way. Instead of being proud of the country, I’m feeling like I’m just another wallet that companies and the government are trying to suck all the money out of.

Always have been, always will be.

The cost of living is going up, the housing market is a nightmare

Don't worry, once they deported or killed all the Jews illegals the prices will surely come down.

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null_dot 4 points a year ago

You're not a wallet. You're an automaton producing value for capitalists.

They dribble a little money into your wallet each fortnight so you can buy subscriptions and delivered take away.

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squaresinger 1 point a year ago

Fair.

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Machinist 5 points a year ago

I'm celebrating Happy Fireworks Day!

I've got new neighbors that are probably about to hear, "Fire in the hole!" unironically for the first time. You can actually see the shockwave from my blackpowder signal cannon. Good chance the cops show up.

I usually use the cannon to vaporize 10oz of kerosene for a nice mushroom cloud of fire, but I'll have to see how it goes.

I'm a pyro.

Y'all wear safety glasses if having bottle rocket fights or roman candle duels.

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hperrin 4 points a year ago

I’m very proud to be a Californian. I’m utterly embarrassed to be an American.

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phoenixz 4 points a year ago

How about you stage a huge protest, and this time you don't leave until Fuckwad McClowncar is out of the Whitehouse?

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yarr 5 points a year ago

Not much of a social safety net. Take that much time off work and things are going to get uncomfortable pretty fast. Last I heard, it's like 1/3 of America that is two paychecks away from losing their housing. It's sad.

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phoenixz 1 point a year ago

And what do you think will happen to pretty much all of them in one or two years time?

Come to think of it, i guess the US made a perfect system to quell protests; Just make it impossible for people to take time off work, nobody will be able to protest even your most sadistic fascist laws

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yarr 1 point a year ago

Come to think of it, i guess the US made a perfect system to quell protests; Just make it impossible for people to take time off work, nobody will be able to protest even your most sadistic fascist laws

Correct. Bread, circuses and riot police (optional).

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Whats_your_reasoning 0 points a year ago

Rent costs half a month's pay, so that checks out.

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canajac 4 points a year ago

How many will die on July 4th? What parade will be targeted? Who will be the next mass murderer? Stay home for your safety people. Too many crazies out there now to do anything in public.

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Bwaz 4 points a year ago

We used to have porch lights twinkling in red, white, and blue all July. This year, we're just flashing blue adamently. And that only because our lights can't radiate black.

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Endymion_Mallorn 8 points a year ago

Careful, you might get mistaken for Thin Blue Line folks.

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magnetosphere 4 points a year ago

You know what will make you feel better? Learn about early American history, specifically the Revolutionary War and the period shortly before it. Ordinary citizens conquered one of the most powerful militaries in the world. Ordinary citizens. People like you and me. There was no “perfect savior” to lead them, either - George Washington was in over his head at first, but was smart enough to learn from his mistakes.

What’s going on now is nothing to celebrate, but the ani-establishment heroes of the past certainly are.

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UnderpantsWeevil 5 points a year ago

Learn about early American history, specifically the Revolutionary War and the period shortly before it.

The Regulator Movement in North Carolina, also known as the Regulator Insurrection, War of Regulation, and War of the Regulation, was an uprising in Provincial North Carolina from 1766 to 1771 in which citizens took up arms against colonial officials who they viewed as corrupt. Historians such as John Spencer Bassett argue that the Regulators did not wish to change the form or principle of their government, but simply wanted to make the colony's political process more equal. They wanted better economic conditions for everyone, instead of a system that heavily benefited the colonial officials and their network of plantation owners mainly near the coast

During the American Revolution, many prominent Regulators became Loyalists, like James Hunter who fought at the Battle of Moore's Creek Bridge. ... The Regulators notably were never against the monarchy - their issue was with local corruption and elites abusing them.

Dunmore's Proclamation was formally proclaimed on November 15. Its publication prompted between 800 and 2,000 slaves (from both Patriot and Loyalist owners) to run away and enlist with Dunmore. It also raised a furor among Virginia's slave-owning elites (including those who had been sympathetic to Britain), to whom the possibility of a slave rebellion was a major fear.

Later British commanders over the course of the American Revolutionary War followed Dunmore's model in enticing slaves to defect—the 1779 Philipsburg Proclamation, which applied across all the colonies, was more successful. By the end of the war, at least 20,000 slaves had escaped from plantations into British service

Shays's Rebellion was an armed uprising in Western Massachusetts and Worcester in response to a debt crisis among the citizenry and in opposition to the state government's increased efforts to collect taxes on both individuals and their trades.

When the Revolutionary War ended in 1783, Massachusetts merchants' European business partners refused to extend lines of credit to them and insisted that they pay for goods with hard currency, despite the country-wide shortage of such currency. Merchants began to demand the same from their local business partners, including those operating in the market towns in the state's interior. Many of these merchants passed on this demand to their customers, although Governor John Hancock did not impose hard currency demands on poorer borrowers and refused to actively prosecute the collection of delinquent taxes. The rural farming population was generally unable to meet the demands of merchants and the civil authorities, and some began to lose their land and other possessions when they were unable to fulfill their debt and tax obligations. This led to strong resentments against tax collectors and the courts, where creditors obtained judgments against debtors, and where tax collectors obtained judgments authorizing property seizures.

Just remember that the American Revolution was a bourgeois revolution that failed to address many of the underlying economic conditions plaguing the colonies from the outset. Yes, the American merchant class beat back the British Monarchists. But no, that wasn't a happily-ever-after for the proletariat of the nascent nation.

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veniasilente 4 points a year ago

I'm feeling patriotic enough to burn US flags and I'm not even from the US!

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Vanilla_PuddinFudge 4 points a year ago

Family is doing a get-together but if I hear any patriotic bullshit, I'm gone, but with them, it's unlikely to even hear the holiday they're gathering for mentioned. They just needed an excuse to party.

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chonglibloodsport 4 points a year ago

Canadian here. I spent most of July 1 in bed! Was not feeling patriotic! Did not watch any fireworks.

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agent_nycto 4 points a year ago

I've decided to actively take the flag back from conservatives. There are some good ideals and good people in this country, and good people who fought for those ideals. I'm not proud of most of what the government has done and all of what it is doing now, but I can be proud of the people who want to get along with everyone and fight for diversity and freedom and the good things that should be fought for.

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Doom 4 points a year ago

I grew up with smart parents. We were never patriotic, this country has sucked for decades

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trslim 4 points a year ago

I don't even like to call myself American. I'm a veteran, and it turned me off of America more than anything.

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zipzoopaboop 4 points a year ago

No. Though I'm not American which may impact that

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Doom 7 points a year ago

that's really unamerican of you

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zipzoopaboop 4 points a year ago

Fuck yeah

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shark_phenomenon 4 points a year ago

Unless a large protest is happening in my city, I'm not planning to be outside on July 4.

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reddit_sux 2 points a year ago

Plan it

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SayJess 4 points a year ago

I’ll be staying home this year. There is nothing to celebrate. At this point I’d rather watch it all burn down.

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LoboAureo 4 points a year ago

Me, but not from USA, so....

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njm1314 3 points a year ago

I don't know if I ever did but I certainly don't now.

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lightnsfw 3 points a year ago

I'm not celebrating patriotism. I'm celebrating a 3 day weekend.

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MeaanBeaan 3 points a year ago

Honestly nationalism for the US has always been kinda gross to me. We've never really had much to be proud of as a nation historically.

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OccamsRazer 1 point a year ago

Well in that case there probably isn't a single nation ever that should be proud.

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Codpiece 3 points a year ago

I’m excited, it’s British Thanksgiving!

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Oka 5 points a year ago

Britains, thanks for giving up.

The founding immigrants

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Bloomcole 3 points a year ago

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altphoto 3 points a year ago

Can't type.... Robot AI dog is following me....gotta keep running. Freedom!

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bitjunkie 3 points a year ago

Not at all, but I'll take the paid day off

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linrilang 3 points a year ago

Yeah… feels like the meaning behind the holiday has been completely lost. It’s hard to celebrate when so many people are struggling with basic things like housing and healthcare.

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betterdeadthanreddit 3 points a year ago

I'll make a nice meal and reflect on what's driving us further from the country we're supposed to be. Thinking of it more like memorial day until there's something to celebrate again.

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mechoman444 3 points a year ago

I just want my day off so I can have morning sex with my partner and set fireworks off with my kids.

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Zephorah 3 points a year ago

It’s a free show. With the right people it’s good, but I understand your feeling.

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How_do_I_computah 3 points a year ago

Don't throw out the baby with the bath water. Nobody has ever liked everything about the US. Not even George Washington. If you can't appreciate the good about the country just because you're paying attention to the bad currently then you should have never celebrated it in the first place because the bad was always there.

The things you dont like about America don't have to be your complete view of the country or its history. If there is even a small thing you have ever liked about the country then the 4th is for celebrating that.

Celebrate our victories. Celebrate our culture and our successes. Celebrate how mad people are going to be at you for celebrating. Celebrate that there are like-minded people elsewhere in the country. Real Americans in hard times and with doubts. Celebrate our history and our positive contributions to the rest of the world.

Celebrate a possible and hopeful future of what comes after.

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andyburke 8 points a year ago

This, but OP, I think, pointed to the issue maybe without realizing it:

If you feel you are just a.cog in a capitalist machine and not a citizen of a country, why would you celebrate?

It feels like Fox news and all the wedge issues have done their work and destroyed our sense of collective citizenship. Now the GOP is doing their corporate owners' bidding.

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yarr 8 points a year ago

If you feel you are just a.cog in a capitalist machine and not a citizen of a country, why would you celebrate?

I do feel like a cog. I don't feel like a valued citizen -- I just feel like some schmuck the administration and/or multinational corporations can siphon money from. The attitude of the USA doesn't feel like "Let's work together to make a great place!" Lately, it feels more to me like "Fuck everyone else, I want to get paid!"

It feels almost abusive.

One of the craziest things to me is it's 100% demonstrable the USA spends some of the most money per person on health care and does not get anywhere close to the top outcomes in health care, but if you ask people on the street, many of them will say USA is #1 in healthcare.

That's the point where patriotism turns the corner into delusion.

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Onyxonblack 3 points a year ago

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How_do_I_computah 0 points a year ago

I'm sorry your view of things is so bleak. I'll fire off an Excalibur round for you Friday.

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db2 2 points a year ago

I liked when we stopped putting immigrants in interment camps after WWII. They're building new one now so what am I meant to celebrate again?

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UnderpantsWeevil 3 points a year ago

Celebrate the Birth Of Your Country By Blowing Up A Small Part Of It

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Puddinghelmet 2 points a year ago

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UnderpantsWeevil 1 point a year ago

Florida is well on its way

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DarkFuture 3 points a year ago

The last patriotism got squeezed out of me a good decade ago.

I could give two shits about this holiday.

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aceshigh 2 points a year ago

While walking the dog I keep tabs on houses that have flags up, and there has been an uptick for about a month now. I assume it’s for the 4th, but I’m curious who will keep their flags up.

I’ve also noticed that some people keep putting theirs up then taking them down, and I wonder what changes…

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HeyThisIsntTheYMCA 2 points a year ago

I'm kinda the opposite, but I have the same reasons. I love where I live, I just wish they'd do better and I do what I can to help. I don't need to wave a flag, people can see where I stand by what I do. If that's not patriotism I don't know what is.

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Buske 2 points a year ago

Lot of people I know are staying home, Generally on the 4th, for the last decade trumpers get black out drunk and end up killing people with their boats and gaint trucks.

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boaratio 2 points a year ago

Yup.

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PunnyName 2 points a year ago

I'm gonna be drunk enough to quiet the fireworks. Every 4th in LA, it's like a war zone.

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tisktisk 2 points a year ago

This is all I've talked about at work.
What are we supposed to take pride in specifically? I suppose pride in our resilience--there is great potential to learn from our repetitious failures surely

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ToiletFlushShowerScream 2 points a year ago

Nobody i know is hosting or attending a formal celebration, aside from one person attending a "Fuck Trump" bbq instead.

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ProfThadBach 2 points a year ago

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Ileftreddit 2 points a year ago

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YiddishMcSquidish 2 points a year ago

I'm a pyro by nature, and love things that go boom. But yeah, not doing anything tomorrow.

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dodgeflailimpose 2 points a year ago

I would welcome a brain drain to Europe.

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dodgeflailimpose 2 points a year ago

i never understood how people especially can be proud of once country. in Europe being a patriot is very much frowned upon.

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stoy 1 point a year ago

I have never really felt patriotic for that date, June 6th is more apropriate, or even better, june 20th (this year)

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JackbyDev 1 point a year ago

I've never celebrated the 4th of July because I've been patriotic, I've done it because it's fun. When I stopped believing in God I didn't stop celebrating Christmas. In the same way Christmas is about gifts and seeing family, the 4th of July is about fireworks and seeing friends.

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InfiniteHench 1 point a year ago

Yep, not celebratin shit. Wife wants to invite friends over mostly cuz it’s a free day off.

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TheLastOfHisName 1 point a year ago

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felixwhynot 1 point a year ago

I’m traveling outside the US. Got a decent price on the flights too

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Jhex 1 point a year ago

bravely seating down

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Fedizen 1 point a year ago

Crossing my fingers for the local firework display barge catch fire in the bay. I just want a fun omen.

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BigBananaDealer 1 point a year ago

yeah. but nothing to do with the country this is personal for me

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HollowNaught 1 point a year ago

Considering I dont live in the US, yes

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strawberry 0 points a year ago

it's just a day off to me, a chance to get wasted lol

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Puddinghelmet -3 points a year ago

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YiddishMcSquidish 10 points a year ago

I hope you keep this energy when your country does something stupid that you don't agree with.

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Kaboom -14 points a year ago

God I hate Lemmy sometimes. Go buy some fireworks, get the grill out, and hang with family. I don't fucking care if you're not into it. Just do it.

Get off the screen for a few hours. You need it

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Little8Lost 9 points a year ago

I dont need an occation to touch grass and meet friends

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Kaboom -6 points a year ago

Op does

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yarr 9 points a year ago

I don’t fucking care if you’re not into it. Just do it.

What's the point in doing it if I'm not into it? Who am I doing it for at that point?

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Kaboom -6 points a year ago

Your own mental health

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astrsk 7 points a year ago

You’re in the wrong sub.

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forrgott 5 points a year ago

No

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Kaboom -4 points a year ago

Yes. It'll be good for you

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forrgott 4 points a year ago

How the hell would you know? Any fool who asserts that they know what's best for a complete strange they know nothing about is not someone I would EVER trust.

Celebrating a descent into fascism? Oh, but of course, celebrating the complete breakdown of social support structures as they're replaced with the populace getting terrorized by our own military is OBVIOUSLY such an unparalleled cause for celebration.

Wait, no, that's fucking asinine. When did you last touch grass, buddy???

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Kaboom -3 points a year ago

Go touch grass.

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AmbiguousProps 5 points a year ago

How do fireworks help my neighbor's PTSD, let alone my own mental health?

I can grill on my own time, thanks.

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Kaboom -5 points a year ago

Don't be a Debbie Downer

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Lemminary 3 points a year ago

And then he said what! Lmfaooo

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Lemminary 3 points a year ago

Aww, conservadaddy is upset the American tradition is dying of its own consequences. "Just do it 😭" they say.

🎻 🎶

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griff 3 points a year ago

boom boom out go the lights

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Puddinghelmet 2 points a year ago

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Kaboom -1 points a year ago

You should go touch grass too

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nostupidquestions

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@lemmy.world

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No such thing. Ask away!

!nostupidquestions is a community dedicated to being helpful and answering each others' questions on various topics.

The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:

Rules (interactive)

Rule 1- All posts must be legitimate questions. All post titles must include a question.

All posts must be legitimate questions, and all post titles must include a question. Questions that are joke or trolling questions, memes, song lyrics as title, etc. are not allowed here. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.

Rule 2- Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.

Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.

Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.

Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.

Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.

That's it.

Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.

Questions which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.

Rule 6- Regarding META posts and joke questions.

Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-question posts using the [META] tag on your post title.

On fridays, you are allowed to post meme and troll questions, on the condition that it's in text format only, and conforms with our other rules. These posts MUST include the [NSQ Friday] tag in their title.

If you post a serious question on friday and are looking only for legitimate answers, then please include the [Serious] tag on your post. Irrelevant replies will then be removed by moderators.

Rule 7- You can't intentionally annoy, mock, or harass other members.

If you intentionally annoy, mock, harass, or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.

Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.

Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.

Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.

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