Thus is the kind of legalistic bullshit interpretation I can get right behind
I dont want to enter a contract when consuming your product..
a year ago by Brunette6256 to c/mildlyinfuriating
finitebanjo 15 points a year ago
Yeah but just to be clear, the terms are likely there for a reason and using this product probably has risks associated.
The only product I want to use with a liability waiver attached is the bungie cord at the fair.
finitebanjo 4 points a year ago
Why would a bungee cord have lead?
SimpleMachine 4 points a year ago
Go one step further and have someone under 18 who cannot legally enter into a contract open it haha
wizardbeard 250 points a year ago
This is Vital Proteins brilliant response to being taken to court over heavy metal and "foreign materials" contamination in their products.
Brunette6256 55 points a year ago
Do you have any supporting links? I saw a reddit post saying something similar but I cant find a real article or support. Either way I am returning the product.
athairmor 152 points a year ago
path: 0 18305136 18305656 18305750, hotness: undefined, score: 152, children: 6
Found searching ‘“vital proteins” lawsuit’
Sued by an environmental nonprofit for failing to warn about the presence of lead and heavy metals as required by CA law. They settled.
expatriado 35 points a year ago
Found searching ‘“vital proteins” lawsuit’
that's just cheating
OhVenus_Baby 5 points a year ago
Seems like a labelling issue due to california laws rather than legitimate ingredient flaws with toxic or heavy metals.
Catoblepas 16 points a year ago
Honestly you should assume all supplements are toxic and full of heavy metals, because that shit is virtually unregulated.
UberKitten 2 points a year ago
prop 65 is a useless law that goes against known science about hazard limits, causing manufacturers to have to label nearly everything with warnings. if a company is violating that law, it usually doesn’t mean much.
relativestranger 18 points a year ago
perhaps related to this?
https://www.health.com/...
SonOfAntenora 130 points a year ago path: 0 18311249, hotness: undefined, score: 130, children: 2
buttnugget 6 points a year ago
I honestly think it’s just a ridiculous ploy and that the product is fine. We need a proper regulatory system instead of this junk. I do think it’s unenforceable though.
S0ck 3 points a year ago
I wonder if we're not fucking ourselves.
"Not enforceable" may have been a thing of the past, with the way technology has developed. We may be approaching a point where terms & conditions ARE enforceable.
MacStache 110 points a year ago
Isn't that an illegally forced agreement? I mean, the consumer already bought the product and is forced to enter an agreement after the fact? At least it feels like it would be illegal.
It's the same with software, sure, but somehow I've been brainwashed into thinking it's ok because it's a digital product/I only agree to a license of said product.
TheEighthDoctor 53 points a year ago
If this is in the US you are 1 year away before companies can run Squid Games, "illegally forced agreement" is a thing of the past
DeathByBigSad 14 points a year ago path: 0 18316648 18318574 18320180, hotness: undefined, score: 14, children: 1
BackgrndNoize 7 points a year ago
Well they do hide their own guy amongst the players who can influence the vote
jumping_redditor 1 point a year ago
awesome, I hope the hunger games are only a few decades away
InternetCitizen2 20 points a year ago
Same in the USA, but that doesn't mean they won't try.
musky_occultist 15 points a year ago
I'm pretty sure forced arbitration is in fact legal and enforceable in the US (at least for the most part? I am not a lawyer)
JcbAzPx 9 points a year ago
Unfortunately, the US doesn't yet consider that a legal right. Sadly, courts take the position that if you don't agree with the terms, don't buy the product. Even in the cases where you couldn't access the terms ahead of the sale.
JuxtaposedJaguar 19 points a year ago
It doesn't matter if you can't afford the lawsuit.
dan 9 points a year ago
The legal system in Australia is better because if you win a lawsuit, the losing side usually has to pay your legal fees. As a result, there's far fewer frivolous lawsuits, and companies don't drag out lawsuits hoping the other party runs out of money (which is a common tactic in the USA), since they could be on the hook for all those costs.
JuxtaposedJaguar 1 point a year ago
Please rephrase.
kryptonianCodeMonkey 95 points a year ago
No way this is legally binding. It amounts to a bait and switch. A product was purchased and provided without agreement to any further terms. Then they sneak in supposed terms after the fact based upon the action of opening the product. That is a change in agreement made without any consideration for the purchaser. That's not generally allowed in contact law.
Furthermore, I really doubt that they can get away with the argument that the act of opening a product can constitute any amount of conscious agreement to some writing on a package. If for no other reason than that this is (afaik) a novel way to attempt to coerce agreement such that nobody would expect such an agreement to be part of the opening process and likely won't notice it.
And it's not accessible for every person who may be using this product even if they do notice the words. Are you a non-English speaker? Farsighted? Blind? Illiterate? Would you have any way to even be aware that those words are terms that somehow binding you to an agreement by virtue of your opening the thing you just bought? Would you have any reason to even suspect that that is the case?
Also, they'll undoubtedly claim that the fact that you have the opened product means that you agreed to the terms, but that is also not the case. Your mom opened it for you and wrapped it as a gift? You bought it secondhand? The packaging was torn open when it shipped to you and you never had any reason to see this text in the first place? It was misprinted? Any of those things and more would mean you never agreed to anything. And they have no way to prove any of those things weren't the case.
Just stupid. I have zero doubt that any number of lawyers would love take this to court and get that payday.
thermal_shock 23 points a year ago
Absofuckinglutely
If I bought it and got home and found this, I'd return it as I have before. You're not trapping me into agreeing for anything without the notice on the OUTSIDE of the product packaging. Fuck this
thermal_shock 4 points a year ago
Yeah, feels like a trick.
VindictiveJudge 7 points a year ago
It actually does have legal precident. You know how you can't read or accept the EULA for software until after you purchase it?
kryptonianCodeMonkey 19 points a year ago
They get away with stuff like that when they have sold you a "license" to their software, rather than something you gave actually purchased outright. It is argued that a license is a an agreement to access a software product, rather than ownership of it, and putting an EULA in between your license purchase or changing it later doesn't affect your purchase because you continue to hold the license even if you choose not to agree to the terms necessary to use it. It's a bit different for a physical item that you have actual ownership over, not a license to use it (pending agreement).
I also find all of that to be loophole bullshit that should be fixed, but that's a separate issue.
spankmonkey 5 points a year ago
If they can change their EULA at any time without consent for something you already purchased that should enable the option for a full refund if declined.
Accept the new license or refund.
kryptonianCodeMonkey 4 points a year ago
Agreed
YiddishMcSquidish 2 points a year ago
While true, the software put it in your face and forces you to interact with a screen that says "EULA". I doubt using a consumable as intended will hold any jurisprudence. But then again look who we have appointing judges right now...
buttnugget 2 points a year ago
Yep, I was just agreeing with someone else saying this is unenforceable. Just a ridiculous ploy and an attempt to make it precedent.
IphtashuFitz 54 points a year ago
They’ll drag out any legal challenge in hopes you won’t want to pay for months of legal fees fighting it, on top of whatever legal fees are incurred that caused you to challenge it in the first place…
orclev 32 points a year ago
Sometimes mandatory arbitration doesn't work out so well for companies either as Valve found out. When they run into what are effectively class action lawsuits but they get forced into individual arbitration with hundreds of thousands of people that clause starts to look really dumb.
pressedhams 21 points a year ago
And fuck the American Arbitration Association.
ArsonButCute 3 points a year ago path: 0 18304247 18306803, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
BigDanishGuy 75 points a year ago
There's an easy solution: keep buying it, break the seal to get to the message, then return it. Have your friends do the same, at the same store. Pretty soon that product will be gone and you can move on to the next store.
If the store starts to bitch about it, you can claim that you wanted to see if the statement had been removed.
finitebanjo 73 points a year ago
Forced Arbitration should be illegal everywhere.
YiddishMcSquidish 5 points a year ago
Usually is
Tetragrade 72 points a year ago
By reading this comment, you agree to be bound eternally in thrall to me, and wear a maid dress for my amusement.
answersplease77 23 points a year ago
Ugh damn it man. okay pm me your address
Tetragrade -1 points a year ago
im good
Tetragrade 3 points a year ago
thou can serveth me from uhh.. over there
stephen01king 7 points a year ago
I'm sorry, the contract has already been signed.
RoyaltyInTraining 21 points a year ago
So when do I get the dress?
Tetragrade 10 points a year ago
Post a PO box and I'll send it over.
mojofrododojo 1 point a year ago
wear a maid dress for my amusement.
when you see my hairy ass stuffed into a maid dress and claw your eyes out, it'll be my amusement then. almost worth the dress...
UltraGiGaGigantic 1 point a year ago
Where can I put my case of beer, bed and computer?
hakunawazo 57 points a year ago
Time to use the box cutter and open it from the bottom.
muusemuuse 6 points a year ago
Attorney: -calls witness, a physicist- Physicist: “by simply observing this product, even without opening it, your clients life was changed in some way.” Attorney: “crazy label people, pay up!”
idiomaddict 4 points a year ago
I mean, you at least should be reimbursed for the costs of returning it to the store (bus fare/gas, and an hour of your time), and it’s probably not worth it to anyone to sue them for it, but I really wish someone would
Bronzebeard 12 points a year ago
no lawmaker is pushing to have that fixed.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/...
Was reintroduced several times, Passed the house once. Republicans keep killing it in committee.
There's also the Justice for workers Act specifically for employer force arbitration, more recently
Serinus 3 points a year ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/...
Don't be too lazy with your both sides bullshit.
The Senate version of the bill, S.505, has 39 cosponsors, all of them being Democrats.[6]
mojofrododojo 9 points a year ago
hand it to a baby. it's like the cursed weapon loophole.
bold_atlas 6 points a year ago
And loose your right to claim the Amazon $5 gift card? You'll fold. Just like all the others.
damnedfurry 25 points a year ago
Well, the purchase is probably already made by the time this is seen, and for those who see it, they probably just ignore it similarly to EULA popups when installing programs.
Duamerthrax 18 points a year ago
It's not legally binding.
LilB0kChoy 14 points a year ago
Assuming you're talking about the US, this is correct.
In the US you need to both actively acknowledge acceptance of the T&Cs, which simply opening a package typically doesn't meet.
Also, and arguably more important, they need to include the entirety of the T&Cs for you to be able to review before accepting. This means on the packaging or presented at time of purchase, not requiring you to go elsewhere to find them or having to search them out.
Now even though it's not legally enforceable, I'd say it's still scummy and companies that do it should be avoided.
JuxtaposedJaguar 0 points a year ago
Those things aren't even remotely similar to each other in terms of badness.
Jarix 2 points a year ago
You know how all these companies are making it lives shittier?
Well people are what companies are. And people are the absolute fucking worst.
And unfortunately there are on orders of magnitude more shitty people who don't run the worst companies in existence than there are people who work for the worst of companies that are making them what they are.
Find your people, the ones that don't suck, because there are a lot more people who only want what's convenient for them and can't spare one spark of concern for all of the consequences that affect entirely too many people that don't want their decisions
PaulBunyan -2 points a year ago
Are you saying poop can be religious? It’s an inanimate object so I disagree. Your whole comment is dumb.
See I ignored the rest and just assumed. That’s how.
idiomaddict 4 points a year ago
Just wait until you hear about holy water.
I do get the point of your comment, but I couldn’t resist
Edit: it’s also funny as hell that you got downvoted, thereby proving your point. People really don’t read to the end of things
AlteredEgo 30 points a year ago
There should be an "protest buy" action to any the products that do this bullshit. A large group of people buy the products and then return them to the store for a refund. Especially for perishable goods, this would make them worthless. Which would make stocking such products a loss and force the vendors and manufacturers to cut the shit out.
ChaoticNeutralCzech 13 points a year ago
Well, the top cap apparently needs to be torn off to read the sentence, lowering the shelf appeal of the product even though there are other tamper-evident seals present.
DreamlandLividity 5 points a year ago
Be careful, if you do a "protest buy", they may legally be able to not accept the return since you already knew about the contract. So you know, either don't do it or at least don't post on social media about it.
AlteredEgo 1 point a year ago
Yeah you'd want to legally verify that and organize en masse for this to have any impact.
Gradually_Adjusting 29 points a year ago
At the board meeting, I want to hear when they decided to broadcast that they're expecting to get sued, but in a really cute way
captainastronaut 28 points a year ago
A good attorney could argue that drilling a hole in the side of the carton does not constitute opening the package.
dependencyinjection 8 points a year ago
By opening AND using.
A good lawyer would surely argue that they didn’t open and use it.
hungryphrog 26 points a year ago
This isn't mildly annoying, this is corporate hellscape.
AnUnusualRelic 1 point a year ago
It depends if you live in a Google state or an Apple state.
CosmicTurtle0 25 points a year ago
Shit like this is rarely enforceable but in order to find out, you need to have money.
What I like to do is clap back and send them my own terms and conditions, with the stipulation that if they don't write back, then they are accepting them.
idiomaddict 3 points a year ago
Just fyi, a biased judge could hold you to even the tiniest loophole the company might find if you send them terms that you define without their input. Still totally do it (IANAL), but you might want to either use boilerplate language whose implications you fully understand or run it by a lawyer.
Jimmycrackcrack 2 points a year ago
Ever had any replies?
CosmicTurtle0 2 points a year ago
Oddly no but I suspect that it's either due to them not caring enough for one person doing this or them thinking their T&Cs will prevail in court.
For me, I don't see a loss. Either my contract doesn't hold up, which means that I only lose time and money or it does hold up in which case I lose time and they (and every other company that has clauses where you accept terms by continuing services) loses their contract terms.
If it ever came to it, I would bet the company would choose to settle rather than risk a president being set.
01189998819991197253 2 points a year ago
That's actually legally binding, still do long as it's ensured mail (or whatever your country calls it when a signature is required to accept the package).
expatriado 22 points a year ago
all that jazz for a protein supplement?
Bronzebeard 9 points a year ago
One full of toxic heavy metals.
RizzRustbolt 2 points a year ago
Supplement purity is hard, yo.
LifeOfChance 15 points a year ago
So when my underage child opens this what's the plan? Clearly theyre not old enough to enter into an "legally" binding agreement, right?
Iamsqueegee 14 points a year ago
Make your own opening elsewhere on the package.
Xanthobilly 13 points a year ago
Telling us the product so we could avoid it would be useful.
Allero 4 points a year ago
Some Vital Proteins product, it seems.
half_fiction 4 points a year ago
Other people are saying it's Vital Proteins, apparently.
DarkCloud 12 points a year ago
Some one should sue them for the maximum highest costs calculable for the travel time of having to return their products buying a new substitute brand, and going back home + legal fees.
Then that person should buy the product again to see if there's still an agreement in place, and sue them again.
Thedogdrinkscoffee 11 points a year ago
Write on the money you used to purchase this by accepting this money you agree to the terms of service...
Eat shit turdblossoms.
Professorozone 11 points a year ago
This is a real thing?
Zanz 18 points a year ago
Lg tried it on refrigerators, even though refrigerators are not delivered in boxes.So the customer never receives them. The delayed or denied every warranty claim on their stupid 2 stage refrigerant pump, then said since the customer opened the box with the terms agreement that they couldn't sue. It took more than a year to resolve just that there could be a class action lawsuit against LG.
Professorozone 9 points a year ago
I'm gonna need some good news soon. This dystopia just keeps getting worse and worse.
Unbecredible 9 points a year ago
The good news is that these things pass, buddy. All things pass, and it's almost over really. This economy, this president, they won't last forever. This country, this current set of land masses, this current set of planets. It's all gonna just...pass. Gonna be just one drop in a lake of space and an ocean of time. Gonna be pressed into a microscopic crease in the fabric of a spacetime already contorted by titanic folds of incomprehensible number and arrangement. Until it can hardly be said to have happened at all.
LoreleiSankTheShip 4 points a year ago
Everything ends, nothing matters. Be happy for the little things and don't screw it up for others
UltraGiGaGigantic 5 points a year ago
The good news is you can choose to save your unborn children the pain of existence on planet earth.
Get a vasectomy. For them.
Professorozone 1 point a year ago
Somehow... Not the good news I was looking for.
Landless2029 5 points a year ago
I had one of these fridges. The pumps even got an extended warranty since they failed so often. Mine died on year 6 of the 5 year standard MFG and it still got fixed for free because of the class action lawsuit.
I learned about the lawsuit after the fact too.
UltraGiGaGigantic 2 points a year ago
No LG appliances, no Samsung appliances... any other brands to avoid?
CanadaPlus 9 points a year ago
Ah! That's one of the worst parts of the internet, and they've figured out a way to make it real.
At least they mention the arbitration upfront, I guess.
Zetta 10 points a year ago
This got me curious because I've never heard of this, atleast according to this study it does not cause liver issues if you use it properly, aka you exercise and don't just drink it casually.
"The results showed that when whey protein is used in an uninformed manner and without exercising, adverse effects on the liver may occur by increasing the apoptotic signal in the short term and increasing inflammatory markers and hepatotoxicity in the long term." - link
vxx 4 points a year ago
Yes, that's the reason, not that it's generally bad. I shouldve clarified.
It's way too easy to take too much. Most people just take their whole daily dose or more with those drinks and forgetting that they get protein from the regular food as well. Most people don't even know how much protein their body is able to process in a day.
Add too much magnesium to it and your blood tests will show how bad it is for you, and your doctor will get mad at you.
We don't need this unless youre doing Sport all day long.
Nougat 7 points a year ago
I can't imagine that's enforcible. It is a reasonable expectation that when you purchase the product, you are free to use the product without further limitations being put upon you. They'd have to have you agree to arbitration before purchase, wouldn't they?
False 4 points a year ago
In the US it might stand-up unfortunately.
False 2 points a year ago
The article is bad at explaining this, but the origin of the term is software that you would buy, you would then be presented with a EULA (after opening the shrink wrap on the box), then you would be unable to return it because it was opened.
It originated in the 80s before digital goods were really a thing.
gravitas_deficiency 6 points a year ago
Lmfao protein additives (or whatever that is) now come with a EULA…? What a time to be alive 🫠
CanadaPlus 1 point a year ago
It's in the "agreement".
possiblylinux127 4 points a year ago
Is that even legal?
PhilipTheBucket 1 point a year ago
I would have thought that that applied to the Uber wrongful death suit also, but at least one court decided that type of click-through terms were binding even though it was clearly a bunch of shit.
Although, it was overturned later because it's a bunch of shit. But it was at least a debate.
ArsonButCute 2 points a year ago
It probably isn't legally binding, but is enough to get most folks off their back.
TokenBoomer 4 points a year ago
They’re bringing back Prima Nocta.
gressen 4 points a year ago
Has this been revealed after opening product? What a shit company. Are customers expected to read the T&C's every time someone opens the packaging? FYI, the page mentioned links to 4 additional pages and one of them is a 404.
Kraven_the_Hunter 6 points a year ago
An unregulated "nutritional" supplement. If it puts you on dialysis for the rest of your life - arbitration only and the best they can offer is a 25% discount on your next purchase. Limit 2.
appropriateghost 3 points a year ago
hilarious. I think they're doing you a favor so you don't have to buy this product ever again
Lemmyoutofhere 2 points a year ago
Open it from the bottom.
ScatterBrain 1 point a year ago
This is what I imagine buying kratom is like
spankmonkey 7 points a year ago
It sure looks like this is displayed after peeling back the very top layer that is still slightly attached at the top right in the image.
So they most likely did not know this was a thing when they purchased it.
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mildlyinfuriating
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It says you're bound by "opening and using" the product, rather than "opening or using". Have someone else open it for you. Then neither of you have done both.
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