If you're going to the US, you're supporting whatever is going on over there. It makes you worse than the many people in the US that were born there for no fault of their own, now trying to work against it.

Schadenfreude, while very natural, is bad enough by itself, actually increasing the Schaden is even worse. So I'm not sure exactly what you'd be celebrating, except your own shittyness.

And I'm not from the US, so "my" nation isn't even the one you're talking about.

Celebrating other people's misery is the reason humans could never get along in the first place. It's tribalism, same thing they've used for thousands of years to divide people.

Don't worry, European countries have their own fascism problem, not far behind the U.S.

Then we can all be miserable together.

Why'd you assume he's from the US?

Send in the Goths, and hurry!

Jesus Christ you clap for your own demise.

Or you know. Fuck tipping culture instead of paying your employees. The bar is charging $8 for 80 cents of bottom shelf booze in a mixed drink and right now they're swamped in business with people racking up hundreds in drinks and bar food. You don't think they could afford to bonus out their staff?

Fuck you.

It's a big world mate and I can't always be aware of every shitty thing going on at all times. Not only for logistical reasons, but also for mental health reasons.

No ethical consumption under capitalism. Can believe workers should be paid by the business owner and not by patron tips and believe that going to a world cup match to watch your country play your favorite sport is no worse than shopping at a big box store or paying your landlord.

Hold up, you're missing some nuance and it's gonna make Europeans in here believe it's true. In the US, any job can collect tips, it's literally free extra money for no extra work so that's why you see the tip option everywhere. That said, not all positions which collect tips get the service industry $2 minimum wage.

Most positions such as barista, hair stylist, etc get paid minimum wage plus they get whatever tips you give pay them. These positions typically get minimum wage because, despite there being a tip option, most people don't tip significantly (hair stylist might depending on the type, but their base fees are already very high). Think of these as your $1 tip category, it's people who you aren't socially obligated to tip, don't expect a tip, get paid at least minimum wage regardless of your tip, and contribute to tip fatigue.

The other tip group are full tip positions, such as waiter or bartender. These positions get $2 an hour unless they fail to get enough tips on average to meet the $7 minimum wage. Realistically, if they aren't getting at least $7 minimum in tips then they are going to leave or get fired long term. These positions you are socially obligated to tip and they expect a tip. Strangely enough, some of the biggest proponents for this tipping position are the people that work in this field, career waiters and bartenders, because despite the very low potential income it also has a fairly high potential income for a low skill job depending on a lot of different factors. This is your percentage tip category.

The $1 tip category won't go away, no matter how annoying it is, because it's literally free money and no one expects you to do it (and if they do feel free to laugh in their face and never give them business again). The % tip category also probably won't go away because it allows the business to shift costs to the customer and the people in the career support it.

You might wonder why people in the % tip category would support it, it's because it's a low technical skill job (hard work only), a lot of the tips are tax free, people who don't like it leave the career, and it often attracts certain types of people (perhaps neurodivergent is the right word, but I really mean the type of people who don't want a 9-5 Mon-Fri job).

In the USA, it is illegal for anyone to make less than federal minimum wage. If a tipped employee does not earn tips, the employer must make up the difference. To not do so is wage theft and illegal.

Same. I'm in southwest Germany and I can't remember the last time I saw a tip screen at a card terminal.

There was nothing funny about joking about glassing the middle east or invading europe, but here we are.

Local sportsball leagues? Sure.

National televised sportsball? Just a vehicle for gambling and societal division.

Sportsball is just a war surrogate anyway.

Absolutely. I think it depends on a few things though. Since federal minimum is still 7.25, any tipped employee in those states with no higher minimum would absolutely hate a salary unless there was still tipping culture. But also, as someone who worked in decent and shitty restaurants alike, the clientelle is a big decider. In a shitty place, I'd rather have a salary, because the people are so selfish and entitled that they refuse to tip if we didn't serve something that was never on the menu, or think $2 is suitable for a $20-$50 meal. In a better place, where tips are more consistent and proportional, tips are a better choice.

It's so crazy to me that Europeans and other foreigners buy into propaganda intended for Americans and then get mad at a total fantasy. The America they think they know does not exist. Edit: This is especially annoying when they try to tell us "vote your way out of it," holy fuck

We're really getting the third word experience now.

For instance in Atlanta, the minimum cash wage for a tipped server is $2.13 per hour. If tips combined with wages do not reach the state minimum of $7.25, the employer must make up the difference.

I begrudgingly tip, but usually 10-15%, like it used to be. I don't buy into the current bullshit narrative of driving up the expected percentages, especially as prices rise as it is. Some might say I'm still an asshole for NoT pAyInG tHeM eNoUgH, but so be it.

So many tipped workers fight to keep being abused in this way, and I don't reward that, even if I support these post-slavery practices through cultural guilt alone.

Asking from a place of genuinely not knowing; are there a reasonable number of places where non-tipped workers are employed in this sort of sector? If so, it might be really handy to put together a list, so people can more easily make the choice to go there, rather than stiffing staff who need the tips to survive.

I mean it's not an individual act here, it's starting to look like collective action. A mass boycott of tipping would force a crisis where workers walk out en masse. Euros are giving Yanks the push they need to build on this, with unions, a collective organization, strike funds. This is the only path towards tipping abolition, a relic of class oppression and a mechanism by which capitalists shift wage costs onto consumers, esp disgusting when we know attractive or white servers often receive more than equally skilled counterparts, deepening racial and gender pay gaps and fosters a power imbalance that enables harassment: 74% of female servers in the U.S. have experienced sexual harassment, often tolerated because their income depends on pleasing the customer.

Only collective action can contribute to changing this, this is a start. Up to Yanks to carry on which will create a crisis where workers strike.

Servers in USA don't get 18.00 flat, usually.

Our rights have been bled for by hundreds of thousands over the years.

Exactly, so honour the people that paid for your rights with their blood, and fight your exploiter instead of picking fights with other workers.

10000 Men Named George

Don't make excuses, try harder.

Have you never heard of strike funds? If service workers can't even pay rent they're going to strike and walk out, breeding a crisis that will make tipping culture untenable.

But base wage for those positions is also significantly lower than minimum wage because the tips are expected to compensate for it, so the ceiling is higher but the floor is also lower. So refusing to tip at all does kind of make you out to be the asshole.

Unfortunately most people are just trying to survive and don't really have the time or the energy to worry about the bigger picture.

Personally, I just split the difference and refuse to tip anywhere it's not already factored into the wage structure. It's not gonna change the situation but at least it helps hold the line.

Non tippers get a reputation around town and then are treated with bad service, largely ignored by the staff. Big tippers get treated to complimentary meals, desserts, wine, and more.

There is also the angle of poor servers being treated with low/no tips, the long term goal of which being to get them to treat customers better or drive them out of the business.

Yep the the American job market is fucked, and it will be painful to change it especially when the people in charge are paid by the oligarchs.

One less painful way of moving away from tipping culture would be something like this: gradually increasing the base salary for workers, as I recall the minimum wage is below $3 for tipped staff. And then gradually decreasing the maximum allowed tip.

But the problem is: Show me a single state where the politicians would agree and then have the balls to go through with it while the oligarchs and supreme court will do everything in their power to keep the status quo.

Restaurants usually take the latter option. I’ve been to plenty of places that are down to the owner cooking and his wife serving, no hired staff at all.

Restaurants are never gonna pay more to the staff than they collect for meals sold. Most of the restaurant’s income (if they aren’t a fancy place that sells a lot of alcohol) goes toward paying for food, rent, and utilities.

It's because you think you're entitled to ignore norms you don't like when you're in a foreign country.

If you can't afford to feed yourself without helping somebody get robbed, then you can't afford the vacation.

What in the world are you talking about? And what makes you think anything you said is even remotely relevant?

No... people dont go to a resturant and expect McDonalds level of service. They're also not going to pay McDonald prices nor expect to recieve McDonald food quality (or lack there of).

My expectation of atmosphere, food, and service is directly tied to the advertised price of the food.

Regardless. I'm not paying my garbagetruck driver twice. And they quite frankly performs a much more important service to me than any waiter ever could.

I pay my taxes. And they're paid from that. Just like i pay for my food, and would expect my waiter/chef/manager to get paid from that.

As of your last note. Please just stop... people make up Lemmy, people make up Reddit, and people are always a bunch of bastards. No one is better than the other.

The Resturants are required to pay a minimum wage. UNLESS, the tips they recieve brings them above minimum.

So no. They're not paid less. At worst. They both make minimum wage. Americans should educate themselves on their own shitty system

Maybe tip workers shouldn't have been fighting for tax less tips, and should have fought for a real wage?

I know so many tipped workers who fight to be able to guilt customers into paying their bills instead of just having a real wage. And they're going to find out that people aren't going to keep paying more and more guilt money to servers. I remember when 15% was the norm, and now people are saying it's 20, and fuck that.

Only in the short term

It will sound brutal, but they are stupid to living with this system. Imagine all costumer facing jobs to be depended by tips. Like tech support, cashiers, shop assistants, baristas, and every worker you meet as a consumer.

Tips was about extra for elegance and nice service. I know living wages are shit, and that's why it became a norm all over the world. But it is something extra, so the worker can have pleasure, not to get through life.

Subsidizing business owners isn't good for the workers

https://sh.itjust.works/post/62495507

What about that?

Or this comment chain on this exact topic https://sh.itjust.works/post/62128604

Or even better, something that is just typical of you fucks, a NYpost piece is triggering this discussion:

https://nypost.com/...

Whereas, and don’t mind me laughing at your ignorance, it turns out that:

https://www.kansascity.com/...

Shout-out to w3dd1e@lemmy.zip for commenting the following AS ONE OF YOUR OWN BUT WITH A FUNCTIONING BRAIN:

”The cash registers are ringing, the beer is flowing and the tables are full.

I live in KC. The restaurants are not full. I’ve seen article after article about how lodging reservations were low before the tournament and now that it’s started, no one is filling restaurants."

? What

I don't see how is Europeans stiffing you on a tip is immoral

You guys are seriously confused if you think you can guilt trip people into believing they are in the wrong. I had a long discussion on this exact topic before and really no arguments were presented to prove otherwise so come on let's go for round two

I say: it is wrong to expect people from a completely opposite mindset, culture and background to know that slavery should be supported with their contributions. I think it's fucked up you guys can only whine about a few missed dollars when there is so much going on that is affecting our lives over here that you idiots had a direct influence on. Let talk oil prices and ram prices, you think I would blaim you personally for that too? I think it's time to do that even if I know it's morally wrong. Because, in the words of Louis Rossman: I will hold you to the standards you hold me.

So tell me again how my argument is not that good. Fuck you.

Correct. Not every server is a bartender in a local place that gets a tip-out on top of their tips from reasonable people. Some are servers in a chain restaurants that serve the least grateful, understanding, and intelligent people around. I mean, I had a lady complain that her medium steak had pink in it. It's not the server's fault if the customer is a moron.

you think you're the only country with an underprivileged class that had to fight for themselves? (or at least want to.... americans don't even get to the "wanting to" stage)

Get a proper job? Leave? Demand fair compensation by including gratuity in the sales price instead of allowing modern day slavery? Complacency with a system like that is damning

It started out at bribery for better service at restaurants damnit.

Worse, it started out as a way to not pay non-whites a decent wage while ensuring they must act servile to get by.

other countries still have tipping. it's just not necessary to survive.

I'd gladly swap if I got an actually livable wage.

Serving is far from the worst thing i've done for $20/hr. The problem is that 'eliminating tipping' means i'd make $7-12 per hour, which wouldn't even pay rent.

And again, thats literally how everyone keeps the status quo, by saying well this is the reality right now it will be really hard to change it. You gotta start somewhere and do something

Im in MA and there are places all over like deadhorse Hill, armsby, wooden bar, fox farm, jewel box, novare res, Maine beer company, treehouse, etc

Nobody is saying they like that tipping is what it is in the US, just that it exists and that not participating in no way harms anyone other than the workers themselves. There's nothing false about that.

Having been in the industry for 25+ years, I've never seen anything like that. Besides, how would staff know they are getting stiffed before the bill is paid.

Were trying, and I agree that tipping is ridiculous. But in the meantime, don't take your frustrations about it out on the servers by not tipping.

Yeah, they're more than happy to take it out on the foreign customers but not their bosses. Which follows how the US handles politics too.

Happy to take it on the immigrants but aren't holding their leaders responsible.

By the way, maybe some of you yanks will take my lack of tipping for you pushing your stupid tipping culture overseas and ruining other places too. I'm joking though. I'm not going to the states any more.

[edit] downvote me all you want, it's not like you'll actually vote for anything that actually matters [/edit]

I'm in a more progressive state (that does not allow for less than minimum wage) so my perspective may be limited. But I think if you looked at a profit and loss statement at 99 out of 100 restaurants where tipping is the norm, you likely wouldn't be calling restaurant owners "rich bags."

Why the fuck are you entitled to tipping restaurants when you don’t agree with how they do business? Truly what is wrong with you people?

Tipping at US rsatauranrs are simply how servers are paid. If you decide to eat oit in the US, tips are part of the social contract for table snd bar service.

Then why surprised?

I don't go to restaurants unless I'm prepared to pay tip.

Yes, all those

Almost encourages someone to rise up.

The whole system is rotten.

Perfect

Ok but tipping hurts the customer by taking more of their money than initially agreed upon for a service so the establishment can make extra money by not paying the employees. Why are we more worried about hurting the employee than the customer? Also I would argue that not tipping would encourage the employee to seek the wages from where they should come from, the employer.

a bunch of stupid cheap dickheads

Hey, give the poor tourists a break. Do you really expect them to afford an international trip, tickets to a massive sporting event, and a few $5 tips?