Windows 10 support quietly extended until Oct 2027, as users reject Windows 11
4 months ago by Mereo to c/technology
There's no struggle free OS, every OS has operations and processes that will need more detailed investigation, and hence read as "fighting with the operating system".
No design is intuitive to everyone, all the time, and in all situations. I'm sure Linux is fine, but let's be real, you know what I mean.
I'm glad that Linux is more intuitive to you than Windows. Good job finding it, and setting it all up ๐
Honestly, a lot of desktop environments are designed to feel very similar to Windows. I tried Mint on a laptop and started liking it right away. The setup was put it on a flash drive, and run the installer. It took 20 minutes to nuke Windows.
My OS struggles come from trying to get windows-specific DAWs and CAD Software to work, which will hopefully come around as more people switch to Linux. I have some alternatives that I'm playing with right now.
Fyi, Reaper and Bitwig both have excellent, native Linux support. If you're willing to re-learn a DAW, both of those are great choices. Reaper is by far the best mixing & mastering DAW out there, IMHO. Bitwig is great for composition and has awesome, intuitive modulation features, as well as great stock plugins and MPE support.
The part that takes energy and effort is making the switch.
I'm really familiar with Linux. I've been using it on and off since the days of Slackware. My work computer was Linux-only for several years.
But, even with that, it took weird driver issues with my GPU, combined with the impending death of Windows 10, combined with the ridiculous heavy handed Copilot BS on Windows to finally convince me to switch my main desktop PC to Linux.
It was just the momentum that was so hard to overcome. I knew what worked in Windows, and I knew what didn't. I had already found and installed all the programs I needed. My settings were all how I liked them. I knew the keyboard shortcuts. With Linux I didn't know what would work or what wouldn't. With Linux, there were a lot of things I'd need to install and set up, and I knew that was going to take some effort. But, worst were the unknown unknowns. I didn't know what was going to cause me problems, and didn't know if they were things I could resolve in a couple of hours or if they'd take weeks.
I'm glad I made the switch, and the overall maintenance load is much lower than it was in Windows. The frustration factor is 10x better. But, I did have to make a real effort to make the switch. There were a few weeks where it was pretty frustrating.
How tough was the DAW to get working? FL is basically the thing keeping me on Windows at this point
Yeah exactly. I set up Zorin OS for my family who are not tech savvy at all. It was a bit different at first but they said they felt much "calmer" using Linux. Modern Windows feels like trying to read an article online or watch a YouTube video without an ad blocker.
that's not really true there's no struggles normally with an OS like Linux Mint.
Selecting a username and password is within most peoples grasp. Click an icon on the dock and you're away
The struggle is the apps for most people, where's Chrome? (when FF is right there on the dock), where's Photoshop etc etc
Linux you fight a bit when setting it up and then its like clockwork. With windows it's easy to setup, but then it starts doing weird shit you never asked for and and undoes your changes making more work forever.
Basic install yes, getting all your favourite apps and network connectivity...well, it's much better than before, but still a short term pain.
Yeah, it was way less friction than I was expecting. It went smoother than some windows updates do (specifically the ones where they just reset settings to their shitty defaults).
Mint is wonderful though I am considering switching back to a system with GNOME instead of Cinnamon because the screen reader works better under GNOME.
I am thinking about giving NixOS another shot or at least going with an immutable system, but Mint is a great place to start your Linux journey, and hell, it's a great place to end your Linux journey if you don't give a shit about computers and just want the damn thing to work reliably.
I like Mint. Got two boxes. 1 bazzite, one Debian and one Arch for shitz and giggles.
Not my experience.
As someone who just installed bazzite today and fucked around with Mint a couple months ago this is very much true. Kinda reminds me of bashing Windows 98 into doing what I wanted.
I installed Bazzite, and I had a bit of trouble!
... Because I pulled out the USB halfway through the install! Like the world's biggest dumbass! Couldn't boot the computer at all! Oh no!
Then I stared at what I'd done for a while, sighed, rebooted and started again.
And it was easy as piss. Bazzite 10/10 for me.
This is my plan. Going to do my first Linux install on my old laptop to learn and then go full Linux once I feel I've got a good idea of what I'm doing.
Can't risk screwing it up as I'm self employed and need everything to work
Most of us (normal people) are on Windows 11 and happy with it. The majority of those that aren't are holding out due to the hardware requirements. -Shock to conspiracy theorists.
Thank you MicroSlop Bot 8000. Nice comment
AMD is better than NVidia anyway
Bazzite also has a better package management system. SteamOS is meant for gaming almost exclusively, whereas Bazzite is meant for both.
I can chime in for Bazzite. It's imperfect, but I've blown up my fair share of aliens and they make playing your games on Linux really easy compared to anything else I've used. I can even stream the game from my desktop to a laptop in my bedroom via sunshine/moonlight which Bazzite helps you install as SteamLink doesn't play nice with Bazzite.
Upvote for Bazzite - the caveat being how much support the distro gets and how long it lives. That said it turned a truly piece of crap all in one hp to something that was fun in about 30 minutes. it's a good gaming OS but I wouldn't use it as my daily driver.
I don't think steamos is a great choice for a general purpose OS....yet
Both bazzite and CachyOS are built for computers and will likely work better for a laptop than SteamOS. And they both have gaming focused builds. I haven't tried Bazzite in a while, but CachyOS has easy to understand instructions on how to install their gaming package.
You won't do this on corporate machines, but converting a Win install into an IoT release and generating a key for it is like a couple of clicks and a reboot.
But, but - the way massgrave is still accessible and not fought against makes you think Microsoft wants the fluctuating users to keep on using their products and ecosystem even if they don't pay the initial sticker price.
So if it's at least slightly feasible for your workflow, it's always better to switch and leave M$ behind.
P.S. I can be wrong, but IoT right now doesn't shield oneself from installing copilot and other garbage, making this edition not better than others, you still need to debloat it.
P.S. I can be wrong, but IoT right now doesnโt shield oneself from installing copilot and other garbage, making this edition not better than others, you still need to debloat it.
a full year in here, with regular security updates. 11iot is still unmolested by microsoft shenanigans. nothing installed on it i didn't put on myself, or didn't come with the stripped-down windows, which isn't much at all. there's no store, so all the store-delivered shit is absent.
I have no intentions of going back to Ravenholm anytime soon.
massgrave can activate 3 years ESU on regular Enterprise for people who want things IoT LTSC is missing, like WMR. I've got Enterprise alongside Bazzite and when the updates run out I'll either switch to IoT LTSC or nuke Windows altogether.
Same, I've got a headset on WMR and it's basically trash if I have to update to Win 11.
you guys might be interested in this, then:
Oasis is a Windows 11 driver for SteamVR for VR headsets of the Windows Mixed Reality family, such as the HP Reverb, Samsung Odyssey, Lenovo Explorer, or Dell Visor. This driver does not require the Mixed Reality Portal application and is therefore compatible with the latest versions of Windows 11 (24H2 and future).
Wow! I was figuring someone would make this eventually. I'd still prefer to go to Linux but this might be the easiest option. Thanks.
Chiming in to say oasis not only made my WMR kit work without Mixed Reality Portal Garbage, but itโs more responsive and tracks better with it. Itโs incredible. Iโm on 10 LTSC IoT which Oasisโs doesnโt technically support and it works flawlessly. Amazing.
I love you, Oasis dev.
This is false. The latter is, anyway. I am running 11 IoT LTSC on my main gaming rig and WMR is still supported. The key is, you cannot install a version any newer than 23H2. There are third party tools available that will block Windows from attempting to "upgrade" you to a new feature release which breaks WMR. My Reverb G2 is still working fine.
...For now. WMR support on a fresh install is still reliant on a Windows Store download which Microsoft will probably cease providing at some point if they haven't already.
Just don't expect Microsoft to actually fulfil their end of the bargain when it comes to licensing.
You are the champ for pointing people this direction but eventually like Adobe they will close the holes.
Yes, but it is pointless like whack a mole.
Doing the Lord's work!
Especially now in the NANDpocalypse, like no way I'm upgrading my hardware.
Yeah my 8yr old comp was built to be top of the line at the time and it still rips on non-current AAA games. Any upgrade aside from gpu at this point would mean a new mobo and essentially a wholesale. Fuck that
Listen, if someone broke into your house they could get into your computer and hack it and see your browsing history and gta6 progress because you dont have TPM 2.0. You dont want that, do you?
It might also be people who want to log in to their computer with a local account, given the problems with letting a US company decide who can use your computer and who can access your files.
that's probably most the holdouts left. the absolute brutal persistence of 'upgrade' offers and win10 doomsday warnings on eligible hardware got most users to do it, even if they didn't really want to.
*half of it
Iโm just broke and not going to be upgrading anything anytime soon. Got an i5 and a 1080. Whenever windows 10 support actually ends, Iโll probably then finally go to Linux, but until then, Iโm lazy.
Will upgrade from windows 10 to Linux.
I did it last year after postponing it countless times. And I will recommend you do it. I know it feels like a huge step, but it is much easier than you fear and once you have done it it is such a big relief to be completely free of all of Microslops nonsense forever.
fuck it man, with the state of desktop linux these days, just put your files on a seperate hard drive and go full hog. Even vanilla ass debian is ok as long as you go for Gnome or KDE.
I haven't figured out an efficient way to run widows programs on Linux. I know wine exists and the vm's. Maybe it's cause I didn't stick with Linux for more than 2 months.
I was super into Ubuntu when it first came out but I got bored of it really quick. Tried it again a couple years ago and it was still hard to navigate.
Honestly most stuff runs fine on wine, if not wine then proton, if not that then bottles/winboat and some messing around. I'm still going through stuff but everything that hasn't worked at all has been thanks to external issues such as anticheat. I even got zbrush mostly working the other day.
I think it's time to update your knowledge... Especially regarding Ubuntu. Do yourself a favor and look into other distros.
Also curious what Windows programs. It's very rare, but on Bazzite if I open an exe, it automatically runs it in wine.
For games, just load the exe through Steam or use a launcher like Faugus with Proton.
i think in the past year they must have made ubuntu changes a lot cuz its now really easy like its almost like a smart phone. even upgrades and updates with an interface now. i could see a techphobe who only ever uses iphones use it with ease.
the only hesitation is there is no tech support for linux. like you cant just walk into best buy and expect the geek squad to fix your problems(they could still look into hardware problems)
that said once you learn linux things come pretty easy with a rollback feature(est month maybe 2 to get familiar with the linux tricks on how to fix stuff yourself)
i still work by a cheat sheet. and thankfully the comminity for linux user help is pretty vast for searches
For those of you who need a longer offramp to Linux like me and maybe haven't seen this posted before:
https://massgrave.dev/windows10_eol
You can activate any copy with support at least through 2028.
Came to say this, I'll add that its is a completely safe and free option.
Benefits over official methods:
- zero cost (don't pay MS $10)
- no need to format to install LTSC
- no need for a Microsoft account (keep your privacy if you have local only account)
Its FOSS so the entire script can be downloaded and read before you run it if you feel uncomfortable fetching some random script from the web and running it via terminal, as I did.
if you feel uncomfortable fetching some random script from the web and running it via terminal
If you can run some random script in a terminal, you already know everything you need to in order to use Linux.
I love Linux and use it myself, but not everyone is ready to move.
For them, an extended Windows 10 EOL is a nice bridge to give them some more time to plan a main OS install (backup all their data, test replacement apps, etc) as OP said. It's not about knowledge or capabilities it's about options, time and many people waiting until they can afford a new PC build to move to linux.
and many people waiting until they can afford a new PC build to move to linux
???
Why would you need a new PC for that?
no need to format to install LTSC
you can modify a text file on an ent/iot installer to allow system and data preserving upgrades on pretty much anything, even 'home' or 'home premium' editions. i have one here that went 8 pro to 11iot--runs great, and have tested 7hp to 11iot as well. that was the test done before i did the one that 'mattered'.. still using it the test system, too. haven't bothered to redo it or reload anything else on it yet.
That's great to hear. I've had mixed results with migrating Windows editions in the past, and I believe it's still an officially unrecommended process due to hiccups that can occur during, and difficulties in diagnosing issues afterwards (can be a bit of a frankenstein as far as libraries WinSXS content, system logs, etc).
normally i'd be against 'upgrades', too, especially that different.
but this was a special case and i did have three decades of wading through this shit to pay the rent to work from. a fair bit of reading and a lot of prep ahead of time made the actual upgrade process itself almost completely uneventful. i did find one odd thing after it ran awhile, but it hasn't resurfaced since.
I booted an old win 10 laptop the other day to see if it still worked. It has a GPU so I thought it might be nice for a few light games while I travel. Immediately started screaming about updates and all the normal windows stuff.
I booted to Bazzite from a flash drive and had it installed in like 20 minutes. Runs like a dream now. It's amazing to see what that old hardware can do without Windows choking it.
It's so easy now to run an option that doesn't suck.
Generous to say Bazzite installation takes 20 minutes
Even more generous to say a Windows update takes 5 minutes
Generous to say Bazzite installation takes 20 minutes
I've installed Kubuntu on several machines and it usually takes about that long, with updates.
I don't really trust windows updates anymore. Sure it may fix critical security issues, but at the same time they stuff new AI BS in, roll back changes and settings I made ("set edge as default Browser?" and maybe intentionally resets registry settings that I had to make, like disable telemetry and other built in spyware.
Eventually they will be urging users to do a back up before updating.
People avoiding updating windows because of how long it takes your machine out of commission for and how opaque the process is has been a meme since like Windows XP. It's never five minutes. Plus the future hours saved not having to deal with windows bullshit.
Lol 5 minutes. Now you're just making shit up.
I just set up a brand new windows laptop last night for our run ing club. Refurb straight from Dell. It downloaded updates and installed updates as part of the installation. That was easily 45 minutes. Then it booted up and it had more updates. 2 more reboots and all of those were done. 2.5 hours from unboxing to done (4:27PM to 6:51Pm).
CachyOS install is 15 minutes rounding up and it's blazing fast.
That is so much bullshit. Any windows update will run you 20+ minutes. My wife had not booted her windows partition for a few months, had to use it because the taxes institution in our country still runs on Excel macros or some shit, and the updates took over an hour and a half and 4 fucking restarts.
The 20 minutes was just what the installer took while I worked on other stuff. I guess if you took the time I used to download the .iso and flash the drive then it would be around 30.
I guarantee that I still got that done quicker than even the first round of Windows updates / restarts on that old hardware that hadn't been booted for 3 years.
I also find that updating bazzite is pretty quick. It's nothing compared to the Windows bootloop of nonsense. Also that machine doesn't have TPM so I would have been out of support soon on 10 with no way to go to 11.
It's still perfectly capable hardware that can run a lot of games. I see no reason to yeet it into the trash or run an insecure / unsupported OS because Microsoft told me to.
There's also the point that game quality has gone down significantly. If I were to build a new rig which would cost me an arm and a leg, I would still just play games that my current PC can already run anyway. I don't wanna play the newest CoD-slop or some tech-demo with MTX-shop disguised as a game. The newest games I really enjoyed were Monster Sanctuary (Unity-based monster collector metroidvania-like) and Balatro (no introduction necessary). A toaster can run these.
Don't forget that not everyone uses their Pc for gaming. Most programs really don't need Windows and since all of the office package can be used through the browser with no real difference in user xp there is no need to upgrade older hardeware that can just stay on Windows 10 or become a Linux system easily.
DMZ 2 is coming though... I haven't had fun like back when DMZ was playable. Not defending cod in any way other than DMZ is life
I have absolutely no experience in coding, programming, or anything to do with how Linux works and operates - I was easily able to install CachyOS onto my laptop removing windows completely. Reading comprehension is difficult if one isnโt used to reading wikis, however itโs pretty self explanatory; if a monkey like me can do it, anyone can.
Good shit. Hopefully you backed up anything important before the switch. Generally good to have backups anyway and use the 321 rule to never lose anything. That's three copies, two different media (hdd & DVD / cloud), and one copy off sight. Although that may be a little excessive for everyone but it will ensure you never lose anything important.
I usually suggest people shop around / distro hop a little. Get a USB, install ventoy, download a few iso's and try a few different distros on their live boot. There are a lot of different paradigms for a distro, different user interfaces, different kernel compilations, proprietary driver options, audio driver options, package management options and so on.
That said for someone new it is literally just easier to use a more widely used or common distro, usually there's better wikis and active forums and it's more likely someone has already had whatever issue you're having when trying to fix something. I usually suggest Fedora or Linux mint (lmde). Although with flatpaks and immutable OS's things are getting easier, more copy paste if you will.
Still using Windows 10, but after testing out Linux on the side last year Iโve come to the conclusion itโs ready. Other than anti-cheat being in the shitter once Win 10 is officially dropped for good by games Iโm moving over to Arch.
not for the ones with the stupider anti cheats
i gave up on R 6 long ago. but basically all other games are playable on linux. i become comfortable living by the moral code of 'if the game doesnt play on linux it doesnt exist'
I've been playing The Sims 2 that way lol
Windows decided to delete all my documents and files 2 weeks ago. Even though I removed them from one drive, windows put them all back in. So when their one drive failed. I lost everything. Like every icon on my desktop too. Thank god i had just backed up a couple weeks before so I didn't lose much.
I was so pissed though that I immediately installed Linux Mint. Haven't looked back.
Itโs all fun and games until you find that one specific thing you canโt live without that requires Windows lol. Hence why I typically have a low profile Windows 10 LTSC virtual machine set up on my Linux machines.
I'm sure I'll find something lol. Currently its still on that hard drive. But I pulled it out for now. I was angry and didn't wanna look at windows anymore but knew I'd probably need it again lol.
Linux only needs to hit a "small but not insignificant size market" for the large publishers to start supporting it. They won't support it if they lose money doing so, but if it continues to grow eventually they will lose money by not supporting it.
Steam machine should provide another bump, just like steam deck.
And issue is it needs to be a specific platform.
From a game developerโs perspective (who isnโt a pro linux dev or anything), they can support a platform. They support Windows 10. Or Windows 11. They can support stock Ubuntu. They can support a SteamOS image.
They cannot specifically support your personalized Arch config.
Linuxโs fragmentation has always been an issue in this regard, as they canโt legally support thousands of different possible system configurations.
HOWEVER,
I think supporting Proton + SteamOS would be very reasonable for a dev. That is a specific platform, its codebase and infrastructure can stay unified with the Windows version, and support for that would practically mean support in other Linux distros.
And SteamOS by itself is getting big.
Agreed. And truly developers don't need to actually "support" Linux; mostly they just need to not intentionally block games from working.
Well, it would be massively, massively better if they did some basic validation and tuning in a Proton environment.
Thousands of open-source-dev man-hours patching in hacky workarounds for Windows games not ideal; it'd be far easier for the game dev to fix things (or raise issues) from their end. And those Proton devs have better things they could be doing.
I hope that steamOS causes this, I really hate booting into windows to play battlefield but it's my only option if i want to play it
Windows11 sucks so bad. I was so excited to learn that Explorer and Notepad were getting tabs & Paint was getting layers. Only to find out that these core features weren't being updated for users, but in the process of adding slop to the OS. Explorer was the worst, my address bar became an ad. And everything was buggy and broken.
And I know this isn't just the Linux fanboy line because Microslop themselves had to apologize and walk-back some of the Copilot obnoxiousness.
Still waiting for vertical taskbar support on my work box. They only acknowledged the deficit earlier this yearโฆ
By 2027 I have transitioned to fedora or another variant of Linux. I am on Linux mint now.
Good way to go! And if you're really technically ept and have no friends, don't use arch but rather the average systemd-free glibc-free and ofc bloatless distro. That'll get you occupied for a while.
God's Perfect OS
Install Linux, Problem Solved.
Gat dayum Microslop fucked up.
They fucked up so hard, they still don't know how bad they fucked up. The done goofed. Done screwed the pooch.
This desperation ain't nothing. Give it time. It'll just get tastier.
I jumped ship over to Linux just in time then. 10 was bad, but serviceable and it got more stable in EOL. They're going to ruin it even more with slop
And with things like selling HEVC support in their new media player, something that was free previously (and still free with VLC Player.
The generic HEVC decoder was never free, what was free was the OEM version that comes pre-installed when you buy a new computer (Because the price is included in that).
But you always had to jump through hoops to get that version installed, it wasn't ever something intended for end users.
There's never going to be a "Year of the Linux Desktop" where there's some critical inflection point like a lot of people think. But Microsoft has fucked up here in assuming that consumer trust is a linear relationship and it's not. They broke the trust, the cracks are there, and users will keep bleeding. They'll keep a certain percentage of users through apathy or complacency, but the momentum is flowing in reverse now.
What it takes for any one person to cross over is going to look different, whether that's Linux getting up to speed on a feature they were looking for or Microsoft crossing yet another unacceptable threshold, but despite all my anger and personal grievances aside, I truly believe Microsoft as a company is incapable of correcting this problem.
Their goals are entirely misaligned, they believe they can dictate the market at the consumer and their revenue is dependent on that. They're bleeding more money and talent through this AI debacle and that's making them even less capable of facing and addressing the issues. Unfortunately I don't think they'll ever fully implode, but just like Chrome eventually ate IE's market share and now won't go away, so it will be with Linux.
Bonus points: I'm calling it, I truly do believe that in ~5 years or so Windows will cease to be its own operating system and start shifting towards a Linux distro with a bespoke DE (again, see Chrome/Edge). They don't want to have to keep maintaining an OS like this and one of the biggest arguments for doing so has been the backwards compatibility, but everything is cloud and SaaS now and they want to push more business customers in that direction anyway. Server will be a thorn in their side for awhile, but consumer facing Windows distro will be the perfect testing ground. Mark it, ~5 years ... EEE
Depends on the manufacturer and if you purchased in store VS online. Also, every computer purchased online has the full specs and if you know what to look for you won't be taken advantage of by the nerd that looks like they know about computers but really only talks up the most expensive one.
Yes, depends on the manufacturer
And relevant xkcd - https://xkcd.com/2501/
The fact that I switched is telling. I legit liked Windows up until 11 and only used Linux on laptops. Everything really did just work and the OS stayed out of my way, OneDrive+office for my whole family was $80/year, and every piece of software I wanted to use was built for it. I gave 11 a shot. I stuck with it a long time.
Now my desktop runs all FOSS and the only thing I miss is Excel.
LibreOffice Calc?
Pales in comparison, unfortunately. That's what I'm using now and it feels on par with Office 2007. If you want a specific example....data validation is a bit of a trainwreck. Unless something has changed recently, there is no way to see which cells have data validation applied
But I should note that I'm an excel "power user" and LibreOffice will fit the bill for 99.5% of people.
have you thought about just going for starting to use databases?
EDIT : like Django + Mariadb feels like something approachable if you are already knee deep in excel power use, which is basically programming. there's some new things to get the hang of, but once you do, it's fairly approachable. It has mostly good documentation.
Yeah but the thing is, unless it has to do with governments and anti trust against corporations or national security interests there's never going to be a major shift to Linux.
France recently changed to Linux on a majority of their government pc's in an attempt to remove dependence on Microsoft and the US and to maintain national security.
I recently upgraded to Windows 11. I've been putting it off, but there are a few apps I need that simply do not work under 10 anymore. Bleah.
I've been using it on a work machine for several years, but I am still surprised at just how much it sucked to switch from 10. My personal setup has been heavily customized over many years to suit my particular needs and wants. More than half of that customization is no possible under 11. There are workarounds for a few pieces of it, but even those are unlikely to remain stable and functional for very long. Microsoft is constantly changing things that cause unsupported features to break.
So I now have a slower, less reliable, less versatile, and less configurable software environment. It also conducts far more surveillance and sends even more information about me to Microsoft. There is not one single way in which this could be considered an upgrade, except by Microsoft's shareholders.
I'm going to set up dual boot with Zorin. That will allow me to boot into Windows 11 for the few things I need that will only run in that environment. The remaining 99.9% of the time I will just run Linux. (I already know Linux pretty well, I just haven't run it as my primary desktop.)
I suspect my next project will be replacing my Android phone's OS with something less invasive.
I don't know if it's possible, but have you considered trying to install Windows in a virtual machine and just use Linux as your primary system? I started out this way too, where I had a dual-boot Linux and Windows system, and eventually I realized that I was booting into Windows so little that I just installed Windows in a virtual machine for the, like, very few times I ever needed it. And then, eventually I found out I didn't need it at all anymore, and just killed the VM, and I haven't used Windows for years.
I've tried that in the past, but I don't think it will currently work. I'll look into it, though.
You can set up a VM that accesses the raw disk partition of windows, instead of an image, so you can either dualboot or boot normally, in order to have windows alongside Linux.
Used to work this way about 10 years ago.
Oh, that's interesting. I didn't know you could have Windows and Linux on the same disk in separate partitions, and then boot Linux and have the virtual machine access the raw disk image of Windows.
https://github.com/ravendevteam/talon
This is how I tolerate w11
Thank you! I will check that out.
Gotta use a MS account on your computer though, so this is not a viable option for a lot of people
As the RAM apocalypse continues to plague all of us, itโs only fair for users to continue using the more efficient Windows 10, instead of the memory-hogging Windows 11.
Win 10 isn't even that memory efficient and still slams the heck out of plattered disks. Not that I recommend an HDD over an SSD for boot drives, but it was usable up to Win 8.1, and even today with Linux.
My jaw dropped when i upgraded from hdd to ssd back in win7. Hdd will take about a minute something to boot, but ssd took about 7 second. When ms dropped win7 update i upgrade to win10. The boot time dropped down to about 15 to 20sec. Still not too bad, cachyos took about the same time. But win10 keep bloating whenever there's an update, the thing i never experienced so far on cachy.
I miss Windows XP. They should've stopped there.
Hdd are just as usable today as they were 10 years ago, and yes in ANY is they suck cock compared to an nvme ssd lol. I think our standards have shifted to see ssd as the norm, it's not like hard drives today are slower than they used to be! Hell my old rig with a sata SSD feels slow compared to nvme
Honestly, Microsoft may be full of arseholes, but moves like this at least one sane human works for the company.
It takes balls to admit you fucked up , and this is one employee showing some balls.
That carries more self-awareness than one can reasonably imply from vulture-capitalist shareholders.
Or more likely just continue to use Windows 10 when it's no longer supported.
Microsoft is squeezing everyone with EOL shenanigans. If it becomes commonplace to continue using software when it's no longer supported, this strategy no longer works.
Hackers will enjoy the land of exploits, though, whereas Linux seems to allow you to patch without needing to change versions. Sure, it may slow the experience, but meh.
Honestly, Microsoft doesn't give a shit about anyone but enterprise customers. They were probably told to get bent by one too many large companies running fleets of thousands of old embedded systems or call centres packed with old desktops or something.
Alas, this isn't a post about Linux - the bar can go nae higher.
Windows 11 is synonymous with installing Linux.
And my laziness pays off for another year.
Yep stepping in dog shit isn't good for anyone. Windows 11 is synonymous with dog shit.
I'm avoiding it because I'm lazy. I have multiple laptops with 11 and they're fine, because I'm not a premadonna like the average Lemmy user.
My PC has windows 10 on it, and some less than legitimate shit, and also some very legitimate shit, and I just don't want to go through the rigamarole, it's a pretty janky setup as it is. A ship of thesius, if you will, going back to like 2012.
When I eventually build a completely new PC it'll be Windows Whatever, because I really don't give a fuck, it works fine. You could get a post about someone buying replacement windows for their house and you'll get ten lemmings coming and circle jerking about Linux.
Poor guy will still be using Windows in two years
Do you log into Windows 10 with a local account or an MS account? If it's local, you're not getting the updates. If it's MS, you might be better off not getting the updates.
Too late, already jumped to Linux. My machine is noticeably faster doing everything now
Sorry, but this sounds like its half bs.
It probably has less to do with "rejecting" or anything to do with RAM, and more likely to do with all the embedded systems running it, or lazy people who don't upgrade simply because they don't need to
I know lots of people running old versions of Mac OS, and it is because their hardware doesn't support newer, and it works fine for their usecase. They're not thinking about the hardware in any way.
In fact, in contrast to MacOS, Microsoft actually offers this extended support option, whereas Apple tells its users to get f'ed fairly quickly (yet another reason NOT to use MacOS / Apple. You pay a premium for hardware they often don't support for long). Also, Ubuntu offers 15 years now support for LTS (which is crazy).
I use Fedora btw.
They're not thinking about the hardware in any way.
Yeah, but that's also because Apple doesn't even inform the user that their version of macOS is EOL. So unless you're an active follower of Apple news, most people won't care -- at the least simply because they wouldn't even know. Same thing with Android, etc... whereas Microsoft makes it annoyingly obvious that you're running an unsupported version.
People just target macOS less.
Like Apple was shipping a year old vulnerable version of java at some point, and their update mechanism still sucks compared to everyone
The only reason it's more secure at this point, is because they've made it extremely difficult to install things from outside the app store by default. If anyone else forced you to jump through as many hoops as they do, they'd be hit with an anti trust lawsuit
Yeah I was thinking so. My friend is at least using the newest Firefox instead of the outdated Safari, so I think that eliminated one major attack vector at least. Thinking about convincing her to install Linux mint tho
Yes
Windows 11 is synonymous with dog shit.
Just reposting something. Most of it probably applies to Windows 10 too.
00000
PSA, for people sticking to Windows:
You can get a reasonable level of privacy by installing Windows Enterprise via RUFUS, which also has options for removing restrictions during installation. Massgravel is used to activate your copy of Windows, the Github also having .ISOs for you to use with RUFUS.
ShutUp10 is a piece of software that goes a step further, allowing you to toggle off many bad things, uninstall Microsoft's AI, and gives a description of what you are tweaking does. The premium version also automatically applies your settings at all times, reverting Microsoft's constant tweaking of your settings.
Some people really do say that Linux is too much hassle, but then go through a 30 step process just to have a slightly less bloated piece of spyware.
I mean, it's good that this option exists. I'm sure it'll be helpful for people who need Windows 10 for some obscure music software, that doesn't work well or at all in a virtual machine or through wine. That might really be Windows 10's singular last use case.
You skip past the part where lots of software doesnโt work on linux, or there are tons of hoops to jump through to get it to work, and once itโs working it can be broken by an update or upgrade. And no, not everything everyone uses has a 1:1 Linux equivalent.
What works on linux works great. No complaints there.
Absolutely. That's what I meant by the music software. From what I've seen it's the most common to have older versions that a lot of people use, that don't work on newer OSes.
Still, a basic DE with multimedia apps, a web browser, an office suite, an IDE, and games cover something like 99.3% of users (arbitrary number).
True, but what's the connection?
Workplaces already usually run Windows Enterprise. And IT departments are practically guaranteed not to let you debloat the OS.
Also, I'm not shaming anyone for using Windows at work. It's not the employees' call. I use Windows for work too, because that's what the company installs on all PCs.
Most orgs will no doubt continue running Windows for a long time to come, due to Active Directory, Intune, and other services. A lot of smaller ones could more or less easily switch to Linux, but I can't see that happening with medium+ sized ones.
My workplace i've got complete "freedom" in my choice of OS and equipment because i own it (the equipment, not the job)
I'm forced to win 11 due to software compatibility, trusted partner requirements and i am not paying for enterprise licensing on a single laptop. Its literally the only machine in the house running win11.
So i use the hacks and the debloater to get around the bullshit. You wanted to know why people do that rather than "just using linux" (which i do, in my personal gear) - you're literally being handled a use case. Right here, right now.
I think they rebranded. I kinda figured that Massgrave was some sort of holdover of 90's teen edginess or something.
The support is just security updates, which all that Windows 10 has been getting since October 2025. These updates are what makes it remotely safe to use the system online.
This is a good thing.
Iirc there are some versions of windows 11 without the TPM check
Windows 11 Enterprise LTSC...
In combination with massgravel.
Oh no it's windows XP all over again.
Windows xp, window 7, windows 10... There is a pattern. Windows 12, however, I'm not convinced will be any good ๐คฃ. Maybe it will be a code rewrite and an entirely new windows?!
I heard windows 12 will be open source and work easily without an internet connection. They are lowering the system requirements due to improvements in efficiency and elimination of bloat. It's like a giant apology for how rotten they realize they've become.
Just kidding! It requires your ssn to log on and takes money directly out of your bank account each month and tries to fuck your mom.
I hate windows but it is clear that 10 is better than 11. I love linux doe... like that whole thing with recall.... if you are using windows let me fuck your wife.
Nice try?
Not true. Things haven't always been like that. "Bananaware" (software that ripens after the sale) was enabled by two factors: internet connections and consumers willing to put up with this shit.
Yeah maybe they'll get it with version fucking twelve
I will have to search my comment history but I called this shit a fucking year ago!
i still havent registered by Win 10 yet. i outlasted the OS!
That's just bs, with win11 at over 70% vs 12% win10.
The whole minimum HW requirements is so bullshit. I have a stick pc and a tablet with some Atom CPU, 2Gb RAM, that run W10 reasonably well. No rockets and will probably choke on many apps, but for web stuff (just don't keep more than 2-3 tabs open) media playing, and light stuff they are surprisingly capable. I have installed Antix Linux on one, and it's a really capable machine.
Kinda, they excluded CPU's that are no longer supported by Intel. If a vulnerability happens, Intel isn't going to willingly provide microcode fixes. I'd say it's old enough it's safe, but history has proven that to be a dicey proposition. TPM was arguably bad architecture with vulnerabilities; it's just protecting the boot chain, but BitLocker is already fucked 7 ways to Sunday.
Trying to up their security for corporations is understandable, that's not to say this isn't a hard push to get people to upgrade because providing support for 10 probably costs them a lot of money.
Requiring TPM at the install check but not actually requiring it to run is bullshit.
LUKS on Linux is far better at protecting your equipment.
Does ESU require a Microsoft Account? Because thatโs probably the underhanded/shady bit of this whole thing.
โAll your data are belong to Microsoft.โ
quietly
I don't think a lot of people decide so consciously as nearly no one installs their OS themselves, but yesterday marked the first time I installed W11 from the scratch on a premium laptop. Official enterprise image, last updates, it's Intel core 7 + 5060 + 32GB ddr5, and as I install stuff I can't launch start menu, it's just does not appear after clicking. Every other browser, installer or program responses as usual, but you just can't press Win and access notepad or whatever. How did they fuck that up so bad? On some dying w10 PCs with a faulty ssd I have the Start menu working weird, but on a fresh machine my client got from the store it's fucking bonkers.
I still remember people calling me a Linux shill when I said the microslop "windows 10 will be the last windows version ever" statement was bullshit in 2015.
I'll upgrade when Windows 12 comes out ... is what I would say but I've already switched to Linux.
I found a way to get IoT on all my home machines. That's how windows should be, the way they do it with LTSC and IoT LTSC.
very few major changes except for security updates, which need to be installed right away anyway
They know the moment Win10ESU ends, the year of the Linux Desktop begins. It's already better for the most part, if only we had better debugging tools for Linux (GDB needs an actual GUI so badly, not just hack jobs on top of the CLI, often even DAB solutions are a bit underbaked).
I wish I was that optimistic, but I lived through the infamous Win ME, 2k, 7, 8, 10 now 11, and every time we thought "this time they're toast! It's the time of Linux!" and it didn't happen.
Maybe this time? Or maybe not...
But every version of windows requires training because they keep changing crap for no reason.
As in why the split between settings and control panel. Why the nonstop start menu changes? And so forth
Having separate interfaces for user settings and system settings makes sense for companies that prevent users from changing system settings.
The Start Menu shit... probably just a strategy to get people to use bing.
its not about making sense, there are plenty of system settings in the settings app. Moving to the setting app was about getting the minimum shippable set of settings into it, anything that is left in the control panel is there because it was high effort for them to untangle (or in some cases the expertise to untangle it is no long at Microsoft). They keep saying eventually the Control Panel will be retired, but its a long and expensive process
They both contain both types of settings, though.
Windows 10 to 11 is a much simpler jump than 10 to Ubuntu.
Honestly, I don't think so. I saw people do both, I helped people do both. Especially if you go with KDE, for a developed Windows user learning how to do random OS maintenance on Linux is often easier than to understand what they fucked up in 11. For not a poweruser it's even less complicated, you're asking your IT guy anyway, as long as all your tasks are being done it doesn't matter.
It wasn't the same when people were going from 7 to 10.
Someone just needs to built a โExplorer shellโ thatโll make it seamless. Of course, Microsoft would go scorched Earth if that happened.
IDK, some asshole recommended one of my elderly family members a chromebook, he can't adapt to it, and lost the admin password. Windows 10 shoves shovelware and random updates on his computer confusing him anyway, do you really think LMDE is going to be that much harder to understand than having to explain to him where the fuck avast antivirus came from?
ChromeOS ๐คฎ
I couldn't figure it out either. It manages to break so many conventions, and not in a good way. "Installing" an app might mean something close to a traditional install (but only it knows where things are installed to). Or it could mean creating a web shortcut... Also, where the fuck are my files? Where is anything?? Is it even on my machine?! Words are supposed to have meaning! What the fuck, google??
You must be young, spry, and tech savvy.
I'm relatively old, and spent some time teaching people how to use computers, both as a job and voluntarily. I don't do that anymore as much, but there are a lot of people who continue using me as tech support because I like helping people.
My mom is nearly 80, pre-school teacher by education. She converted from Windows 10 to Linux with me giving her instructions on the phone, and even since the amount of problems she need my help with fell by at least an order of magnitude. Meanwhile her librarian friend converted to 11 and she needs help constantly, even though she was able to use 10.
Iโd say it is worse trying to find replacement for software not available on Linux and trying to adjust/learn the new workflow when you do.
On the other hand, a lot of software I wanted was primarily Linux, so that was nice when I switched.
I really wished I saved the thread but there was a great post on Reddit back in the day of a sysadmin that successfully move his entire company to OpenSUSE
I fond it lol: https://web.archive.org/...
(comments): https://www.reddit.com/...
Why SteamOS specifically? It's not a particularly good Linux distro, unless you're using a Steam Deck or a Steam Machine.
And even then, better options exist if you feel like switching the device's OS. Personally I keep SteamOS on my Deck, because I don't want to reinstall all the games. Otherwise I'd move to Bazzite.
There are plenty of Linux distros with either Nvidia drivers pre-installed or with toddler level installation of them. If your only issue is nvidia drivers, then it makes no sense to wait for SteamOS. Try Pop!_OS, Manjaro, Ubuntu, Mint, or Fedora. Any of these will do a better job than SteamOS (ok, maybe not ubuntu), and they're available right now.
View it, @omodasonya2@lemmy.world
My "gaming rig" (more like toaster - it's not good and I am a poor loser) still runs Win7. Last defensible Windows version.
๐ฌ
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If youโre too lazy to switch to Linux like me, Windows 10 Enterprise IoT LTSC is supported until 2032 and free to download and permanently license.
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