Several US schools to install pepper-spraying drones to respond to school shootings
22 days ago by return2ozma to c/technology
They're saying this will backfire and will attack people who are not actual shooters
It's called Blackfire
I predict the first kid to get pepper-sprayed will be Black.
Didn't you know that the only racist is the person who talks about it like that
/s
I bet it's gonna be Tolkien Black.
The call with Cartman was great.
Oops, that was just a poptart. We'll release a statement later vaguely alluding to a software malfunction without actually apologizing or assuming any responsibility.
you’re not wrong.
in a more comical scenario, i predict that a programming club will get expelled for using their flipper zero to take control of the pepper spraying drone.
Anything but regulate guns, making mental health ressources more accessible or punish bullying.
This normalizes policing by machines, controlled by faceless people who will be shielded against consequences just like cops are shielded now. Drones don't have a face, a name or an personell number. If something happens (and it will), you can't even point your finger on the guilty party anymore. It also shields those controllers from any social backlash they would get if they would hurt someone in person.
Schools are the obvious places to test/enact these types of changes too.
Kids don't know to speak out against remote policing via robotics, and normalising it now gets them used to it's wider use in society later.
It's much easier to raise a generation under a new set of standards, than it is to make an existing generation accept a new normal.
regulate guns
Yeahhhhh I'm not super stoked about the government regulating guns. Like I'm absolutely not a "guns in schools" kinda guy, but governments regulating guns just makes the proletariat and individual workers easier to oppress.
punish bullying
Bullying should absolutely not be tolerated but IMO the emphasis should be on restoration and justice instead of punishment IMO.
If something happens (and it will), you can't even point your finger on the guilty party anymore.
Sure you can: whoever controlled the drone. If it's autonomous, whoever owns the drone. If the operator or owner is being hidden, it is whoever or whatever system is enabling the hiding.
Because there's no political or popular will to do anything about it. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink; that doesn't mean water is useless.
There's something very wrong with your water. It's killing a lot of children.
Yeah because the vast majority of the proletariat here are white people who tolerate capitalism because it uses white supremacy and its white privilege to buy their complicity. Same is true for various other bigotries. If we nipped that shit in the bud and developed class consciousness, a revolution would take like three seconds.
Like having a heavily armed populace is literally the only good thing about 
What is that heavily armed populace doing? They're not resisting a government that has entered the information warfare age, where every police station has SWAT gear and tanks and helicopters. The guns aren't saving you from the government, they're not saving me from the government, they're not saving Cletus on 10 acre compound if Uncle Sam decides to pay a visit with flashbangs and riot gear.
All the guns are doing is terrifying minorities, who actually can be controlled by them.
Guess how I know.
Bullying should absolutely not be tolerated but IMO the emphasis should be on restoration and justice instead of punishment IMO.
That's such a limpwristed response to bullying. The average bully doesn't care about restoration and justice, that's why they're bullies. No amount of righteous indignation or high horsing is going to make them care.
The proper response to bullying is the same as the proper response to tyranny. Not appeasement and pandering, but an uncompromising commitment to putting them in their place.
Not appeasement and pandering, but an uncompromising commitment to putting them in their place.
I didn't say to appease or pander to the bully's sensibilities. And putting them in their place might be part of the bully's restoration.
The average bully doesn't care about restoration and justice, that's why they're bullies.
This was specifically about bullying in schools, i.e. they're children. Some of them might grow up to be bullies, but my view is that most childhood bullies have not yet developed empathy for their peers. I.e., people can change, especially children.
You said not to punish them. How do you intend to teach them empathy if all they learn is that they can get away with doing what they want?
I was a child once. I got bullied by other children. Some of them grew up, some of them didn't. But you know what never helped? The adults who focused their ire on me anytime in stood up for myself, instead of having my back or telling the bullies to knock it off. No, they just told me I'm supposed to be better than them, so I'd get in just as much if not more trouble than they did, because "held to a higher standard" or some shit.
All they did was create a feeble, traumatized, spineless adult who lets others walk all over him because he's too afraid to stand up for himself, not because he's intimidated by bullies, but because he fears the authorities and feels he doesn't deserve the ground beneath his feet. An adult who bottled up all his emotions, because there was nowhere else for them to go, until years later when he couldn't hold in the pressure anymore and his psyche started rupturing into mental breakdowns and became entirely unable to participate in society.
Except no on ever says "it's okay, it's understandable, he has trauma." No, people say "That guy's crazy, stay away, he's mentally unstable, ew." They say "stop blaming your childhood, you're not a victim, trauma isn't real, you're clearly choosing to have mental breakdowns because you want attention and it makes you feel powerful" which is entirely counterfactual.
So no, don't let bullies off the hook because you think "punishment" is a naughty word. All you're gonna do is enable them to push their victims over the edge, with no recourse but to feel backed into a corner and have to fight their way out.
I've never shot anybody, because that's not something I would do. But I can definitely understand how enduring years of that kind of treatment can make someone feel like they have no other option besides seeking vengeance, making others feel the pain that those others had made them feel. And to an unbalanced psyche in that sort of state, everyone who minimized and dismissed and ignored their pain when they cried out for help might seem like valid targets. That doesn't make it right, but from a psychological point of view, it's easy to see the direct line of cause-and-effect, if you take a moment to remove those socialized glasses of admitting the facts only when they're comfortable.
A large proportion of school shooters were victims of bullying. That doesn't mean we should stigmatizing the victims and ostracize them further, although that's probably the response most "normies" would jump to. But that would exacerbate the problem. No, the problem is to reduce the prevalence of bullying, and give victims sufficient avenues for redress and support, so that they don't feel like they have to fend for themselves while backed into a corner with their hands tied behind their back and pushed daily beyond the reasonable limits of what a human psyche can take until they can't take anymore and finally snap.
Don't be silly, spoilt sport willy. War industrial machine needs to be fed!
I mean the US is too lax with access to guns, but they also have many other problems that lead to this. I mean it's telling that mass shootings don't really happen anywhere else, even in places with effectively no gun control.
There is really no other comparable country in the world with the same gun proliferation as the US..
So yes, guns are definitely the main factor here.
You can't assume a correlation from one data point. If it's the guns, then that'll show up in data from other countries too. When's the last time you heard of a mass shooting in Yemen?
Couple that with the fact that so many Americans wanting to shoot as many human beings as physically possible is still an enormous cause for concern even if we somehow prevent them from getting a gun.
Because it's literally impossible to solve. The party which would do that would literally be guaranteed to lose the next election and the other party would then revert the decision. A massive part of the US population gets really pissed when you try to take their guns (or even just the possibility of them having guns in the future). Trying to actually restrict gun ownership is political suicide in the US.
What could be done is solving the actual problem: Kids turning into psychopaths by being bullied over years until their mind breaks.
The drones can remain airborne for about eight minutes on a single battery charge
- Hear drone
- Hide for 8 minutes
- Drone evaded
Couldn't you just shoot the drone?
Me personally? No.
In 5 years we can automate school shootings and put real shooters out of a job.
Something tells me thry won't be using them specifically for school shootings.
Hmm... maybe they could help at elections, watch and ensure everybody ticks the boxes in the proper column...
/s
next thing it will be drones with guns.
Or they could just shoot the drone.
Why? It's incapacitated the potential targets. Let the drone shoot, the shooter need not worry if they are immune to it's effects.
Little Billy took a wrong turn, though. He slipped on the spray that settled on the ground. The ambient spray in the air has drifted into his eyes. Now he can't see, doesn't know which way to crawl. His panic and pain will be short lived, as the shooter no longer needs to aim, as his target is unable to flee.
What could go wrong?
How long til they're deployed on rowdy students?
That's probably the point. If they do a walk out for Palestine or something you send in the drones to attack them. Blame it on a computer glitch and if all else fails blame it on woke. They're banning phones at school so that no one will be able to record footage of it happening and so that they can make the school security camera footage just disappear
Till the cops get there and do what? Not go in? Because, that's what cops do at active school shootings--hide.
If it was needed founders would have passed a right to a childhood
Nation of psychopaths. Just control guns FFS.
☝🏻 Modern NBC Honeywell filters aren't cheap. I know, I looked into modifying a surplus skin tight Russian gas mask, first term Trump. If I survived a nuclear blast I'd still hope to be able to breathe was the point.
Either way, it gets costly because once you open that filter, you better be ready to use it, kind of thing, meaning they start to degrade once you open one. So, it's not the masks really that get ya, it's the price of the filters.
Some bored kid in robotics class is gonna hack a drone and spray a bunch unsuspecting classmates one day.
Exactly this! My son tried to print a picture of a fire alarm from his school Chromebook and some how sent the print job to every single printer in the building. The IT department had absolutely no idea how he was able to do it, because only teachers are supposed to be able to connect to the printers. Now imagine that with drones filled with pepper spray.
The US is such a backwards place.
Guy 1: "Uhhh, too many people are shooting up schools with guns. What can we do about that?"
Guy 2: "I know a guy who knows a guy who can make a drone that shoots pepperballs. We can also install bulletproof doors that lock from the inside and get some armed guards to patrol the kindergarden."
Guy 3: "What if we enact some reasonable gun laws?"
Guy 1 and 2: "Ba-ha-ha-ha. Fuck off, commie. Jesus gave all'ya'all these guns. Why do you hate Jesus?"
It's not going to get used at all. They'll sit in their pods, collecting dust and by the time they get activated, if ever, the batteries will be dead, the control software will have bad update or version mismatch, or the nozzles will be clogged.
(I’m not a US citizen; I believe guns should be controlled and there’s no reason for a citizen to own a gun)
Don’t US school run shooter exercises? Darwin, even here in the UK where I live, the secondary school (12-16) ran twice yearly active shooter exercises - although they called them something else, like “lockdown exercise” and we’ve only ever had one school shooting (1996).
My point being that surely any exercise would train the whole response system, including pepper spray drones (still can’t quite believe I’m typing this - anything to avoid actual gun control, I guess)?
They're not that easy to hit. I once invited someone to try hitting my camera drone with a 9mm and they couldn't, despite all bluster and claims otherwise. it might have been easier inside a building.
But, any rounds expended toward the drone are rounds not sent to children/staff. And an FPV drone to the face even without pepper spray can mess up someone's aim.
- The point is that the terrifying systemic problem of school shooters should be tackled at its root causes, not merely suppressing symptoms. It's beyond absurd that schools in the US have become institutions of normalized violence.
- Going to another room and closing the door renders any drone "not very effective…" School shooters have nothing left to lose. These drones are an extremely expensive yet stupid way of defusing such people. From the article:
The drones can remain airborne for about eight minutes on a single battery charge
I know the US is plagued by obesity, but I'm pretty sure the average shooter can outrun a drone for more than 8 minutes inside a building. What a bad joke. This is simply about signing contract deals for weapons manufacturers because everything about this screams poor taste.
However, not everyone is convinced the drones are the right approach.That includes Tony Montalto, whose 14-year-old daughter Gina Montalto was among the 17 people killed in the 2018 mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas high school in Parkland, Florida. He told WPTV: “These drones aren’t patrolling – they just pop up when needed. So that’s part of the problem. We need to focus on the prevention piece rather than the reaction piece.”
“Its not perfect, therefore no effort should be expended toward any possible harm reduction”
Non sequitur fallacy and then some. Not only didn't I say "it's not perfect", I said it's completely stupid such as what's depicted in the illustration above. I also didn't say "no effort should be expended", in fact, my first sentence proves the contrary: most efforts should be concentrated on the root causes. And the last sentence quotes the article, symptomatic measures should be prevention, e.g., patrol. Money towards these drones can be spent far more wisely.
This assumes that there is a potential for harm reduction in this proposal...which there is not.
A friend was annoying me with one, so I caught it with my hand from behind, and held it steady.
I've a little DJI drone and an old Matrix drone, the matrix has four 800 watt motors spinning 15" blades. You're welcome to try and stick your hand in that one to see if you can catch it.
This well be used on students. Mark my words.
Fight between two students? Better pepper spray everyone on the corredor and send the asmatic kid to the hospital
Everything but regulate guns
Actually restricting guns for the plebs is impossible in the US. The right to bear arms is literally in the constitution. And when looking at the (pretty damn short, but it does exist) history, it makes perfect sense (even though it doesn't actually work to keep the government honest and the feared British revenge war never happened).
What would be possible even in the US would be making it less likely that the abundant guns (which just ain't going away anytime soon) are used by people with serious mental problems - by reducing the likelihood of serious mental problems to happen.
You need a village to raise a kid.
We also have the right to vote, but Trump wants to restrict that too. So...yes, it's entirely possible in the US. No one has the political will so far to do it. Gun lobbies are too strong and money is above human life, especially our children's.
You might accidentally shoot the (white) kid of some rich parent.
Gotta get the drones out there first.
Tasers are next. Then guns with rubber bullets. Then guns with regular bullets.
Ah the ol' lucrative Hacker-Convict-Security Consultant pipeline.
And also it normalizes seeing drones on school property.
I've said it a thousand times now. Someone is going to 3d print a fully functional drone with low tracibility, slap explosives on it and use it to do a Boston Bombing/Columbine style terrorist attack.
What the hell are they gonna do then? This worlds fucked.
School during a lockdown is a perfect place for a high-speed wheeled vehicle.
Anything but regulate guns
Why not a flash bang? No really, what's the risk?
Wouldn't this be a police tool?
Flashbangs don't work like they do in games.
Pretty sure if I time it right I can get a jump boost.
Fucking LOL.
Let's make school shootings even more confusing by making sure both victims and shooter(s) are all grouped together on the ground screaming about the waeaponized capsacin in their eyes.
Cops in Texas are going to have to explain why they mowed down multiple innocents simply because they couldn't figure out who the shooter was in a sea of kids screaming about getting pepper sprayed after almost getting shot.
This will not end well. It will end with more dead kids not less.
Schools were scary enough when they had a permanent paramilitary occupation (police) now it's going to be downright dangerous to go to one of those prisons
Treating symptoms, the 1954874th.
If the reasons for school shootings, in some cases is bullying, perhaps schools need to do MORE to create a school community that is more inclisive, respectful and welcoming to all. However we also need to build up resilience in people, as not everyone is going to treat you nicely all the time, and we need to, in some cases have thicker skin and the ability to say NO and STOP to people in such a way that they then STOP.
Drones are an effective tool on an open battle field; but they operate under wildly different conditions. Wide open spaces and short contacts (find target, ram to explode. They don't have to loiter and maintain that contact).
A pepper spray equipped drone in a school??? Tight enclosed spaces with halls and doorways (that are usually closed) you've got to navigate. Quad copters are loud, and that'd be amplified by that enclosed space. Without sufficient distance to keep out of reach they'd be an easy target to take down by the assailant. To use the spray, you'd have to get near, deploy it, and escape before being struck down; giving the spray to the assailant to harvest and use.
AND they've only got 8min of flight time.
I'm now imagining a professional-level FPV drone racing controller/pilot just blasting it at 100mph (which iirc is about the speed they race at in corridors) through the shool to drive by pepper-spray someone.
I mean, I'm sure whoever came up with this idea imagined it exactly like that, and ngl it would look pretty cool :D
I can't think of anything more American than weapon-carrying drones being deployed to combat armed attackers in schools.
They need a points system.
And Flock cameras so people can bet.
And those drones will be controlled by ChatGPT/Grok.
Pepper spray, especially fog-applied, is going to get around that.
they'll just ban private ownership of gas masks, same as they did with body armor in nys.
Like the kind you wear in a lab?
No, those are purpose-built to keep airborne contaminants out.
The lengths we'll go to not do gun control.
You know how conservatives yell about protecting the children? HEY MOTHERFUCKERS, KIDS NEED A SAFE ENVIRONMENT TO LEARN AND JUST BE WITHOUT GODDAMN ARMED DRONES FLYING AROUND THE HALLS OF THEIR SCHOOLS. THAT SHIT IS PERVERSE AND WEIRD. WHAT ARE YOU PEOPLE THINKING? IS NOTHING SACRED? LEAVE THE FUCKIN CHILDREN ALONE.
Wow, that's insane.
Quick, initiate lockdown, barricade all windows and pull down the curtains!
But sir, what about dem drones?
You're right, leave the doors open en don't pull down the curtains!
Lockdown succesful, lives saved
What was that movie from the late 80s or early 90s that had metal detectors at the high school. The students looked dangerous. And the teachers, or substitute teachers, they were all human-looking Killer Androids? There was a bunch of gang warfare as well?
Class of 1999
That's it!
Uh, FUCK THAT? Maybe?
If you can't (or won't) cut down on having firearms freely available, and if you cannot (or will not) do more on the mental health side of prevention, and you have already invented bullet proof whiteboards, doors like battlefield tanks, and implemented a system of metal detector entry checks and maybe deployed an armed guard, then this is an almost good idea. It's the blinking light in the window and an alarm system sticker on the window that may deter a thief but for school shootings.
I'm not sure about pepper spray. Is a blind shooter unloading their AR-15 magazine an improvement over a fully sighted one? Why aren't they equipping them with tranquilizer darts? Cross promotion potential for zoos as well.
What are the odds that we get coordinated school attacks and we find out one part-time student at the control center can't fly 5 drones in 5 different high schools at the same time?
Pepper spray doesn't have to be accurate and it's more immediate than a tranquilizer (which could also be dangerous because the same amount of traquilizer used on a grown adult could kill a kid).
That being said this is "let's try anything except addressing mental health, bullying, and gun control".
Ask yer mum.
Installing one imo would be a fiber optic fixed pathway
Yes, this is obviously the best way to solve the problem
School shooters respond by using attack drones.
I'll send you my script to have them monitor bathroom usage. I've perfected lobing the pepper balls over the bathroom partitions.
I want such a drone!
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I predict the first kid to get pepper-sprayed will be Black.
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