What is a gender neutral honorific for non-binary folk?

7 months ago by SirSamuel to c/asklemmy

I was raised to address strangers and those I wish to show social deference to as "Sir" or "Ma'am". It's a difficult habit to break, as it is deeply engrained.

What is an equivalent gender neutral honorific that is relatively common in English? If I can't break the habit I'd rather have a substitute word to use instead of an awkward pause in the middle of addressing someone

I'd just use Google to ask but I'd rather ask the people directly rather than an AI generated answer based off of Reddit threads

ETA: I suppose if Yessir and Yes'm work, Yesn't could too? Mostly joking… but maybe… 🤔

Drunkdos 76 points 7 months ago

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Aeri 70 points 7 months ago

"OI CUNT" 🇦🇺

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jobbies 7 points 7 months ago

Scotland approves 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

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cerebralhawks 62 points 7 months ago

FWIW, Sir is gender neutral in the military — this came up in Star Trek Voyager, anyway. Basically if your senior officer isn’t male, they’re sir until they tell you otherwise.

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bamboo 56 points 7 months ago

FWIW, Sir is not gender neutral in Gamestop.

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Rhynoplaz 30 points 7 months ago

Sir, this is a Wendy's.

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Ghostalmedia 8 points 7 months ago

GameStop has Wendy’s now?

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fartographer 5 points 7 months ago

Yeah, Wendy's nuts are loose but your manager "borrowed" the socket set and now your clearance display is on the ground.

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HikingVet 33 points 7 months ago

Sir is gender neutral in fictional militaries. Every woman holding a commission I ever encountered was ma'am. Didn't matter the country.

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cerebralhawks 4 points 7 months ago

Yes, Star Trek is fictional.

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Dasus 4 points 7 months ago

But the way you've formatted your first comment is "this thing is a military thing, as can be seen from this fictional military" which doesn't necessarily imply said thing is fictional even though the military you've used as an example is.

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JustAnotherKay 22 points 7 months ago

Sir hasn’t been gender neutral in my military for like 30 years at least

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theherk 12 points 7 months ago

Not sure what military you served in, but the one I served in definitely didn’t call women sir until instructed otherwise. However, “mister” may be correct for all warrant officers.

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cobysev 18 points 7 months ago

I served in the US Air Force. Everyone was "Sir" or "Ma'am" and it was very gender-specific. Even for the few years we allowed transgender folks to serve (before Trump banned them), you referred to them by their preferred transition title.

We don't have warrant officers in the Air Force, so I can't speak to their title of address.

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theherk 4 points 7 months ago

Same, USAF but decades ago. It was actually the USAF protocol office I called to verify the “mister” address for WO. Not because we had them, but because they still have protocol for how to address them, generally army chopper pilots if I recall.

eta: I should also clarify that I don’t know that to be true. It could easily be one of those ID-10t situations where somebody tricked us into calling protocol and they went along with it. Could be complete bullshit.

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cobysev 6 points 7 months ago

When I served (2002-2022), we were always told that warrant officers are technically officers, so treat them the same as any officer. So we would've addressed them as Sir or Ma'am if we came across them. As well as saluting them if we met them outside.

I don't recall ever addressing anyone as "Mister" in the service. Heck, I retired a few years ago and now I feel weird when people call me Mr. [Last Name]. I got so used to being called by my rank and last name for 2 decades. Mister just sounds wrong.

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cerebralhawks 3 points 7 months ago

Um, Starfleet... as mentioned (Star Trek Voyager... Star Trek's Starfleet is inspired by the Navy).

I never served... Mostly due to health reasons

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theherk 3 points 7 months ago

Oh I misunderstood you. I thought you were using the Star Trek reference as just a supporting claim that militaries follow this practice. But I see now you meant only in that context.

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cerebralhawks 2 points 7 months ago

Yeah, I meant that Star Trek did it, and Star Trek is (supposed to be) based on the Navy, so as one who's never served, I really only have Star Trek Voyager (which had a female captain) to go by.

With female bosses, I've always asked them if they want to be called sir or ma'am. It sounds like a good way to catch hands, but if you ask out of respect and good faith, chances are you'll be answered in kind.

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givesomefucks 9 points 7 months ago

Not really...

Like, yeah, probably in Star Trek, but that would have been a projected evolution of modern society, not a reflection of current reality.

Everyone would assume "sir" and if it's over an email no one is getting worked up about it.

But call a female officer "sir" to her face and I don't think it will go well

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femtek 3 points 7 months ago

No, I got yelled at when I didn't see.

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TotallyNotSpezUpload 56 points 7 months ago

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prex 10 points 7 months ago

Are you sure you're not Spez?

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SirSamuel 2 points 7 months ago

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Stamau123 53 points 7 months ago

Mage

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foliumcreations 19 points 7 months ago

I've seen enough posts related to etymology or historical use of words where they, either misrepresent the facts to fit a narrative or just make shit up, that I try to look it up my self. I also find etymology fascinating so that helps.

In this case they are absolutely right.

Both Mr and. Mrs,ms are derived from master and mistress (teachers) and both of those words stem from the Latin word Magister.

Edit: fun fact the English verb stick is the same word as the noun stick and comes from the same origin the Germanic word stik which also meant a piece of wood and to pierce/adhere or sharp. But wait it's older than that the Latin word stigare also means pierce. And share the same ancestry, namely indo-european. Turns out we humans have been talking about sticks for a long time.

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qarbone 10 points 7 months ago

...why not just "magister" and avoid a word that already has very strong, current connotations with fantasy?

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Specter 8 points 7 months ago

I mean, mages are pretty cool. 🧙‍♂️

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Mesa 3 points 7 months ago

Let's hit "magister" and then work our way down. I swear to god I'd change the shit out of my pronouns to fit mage.

The issue, I guess, is that Mr./Ms. have had centuries to be normalized into common use, whereas "magister" still holds a bit of prestige or honor to it. I'm just spitballin'. I'm definitely going to read more into this when I have some time.

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fibojoly 2 points 7 months ago

Although it was also my first choice, magister is masculine. Latin is a gendered language (with more than just m/f) and AFAIK magister isn't neutral.

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Mesa 4 points 7 months ago

It doesn't have to carry that genderedness into English.

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Axolotl_cpp 1 point 7 months ago

Magister does not change with gender tho, and generally it should not be a problem since we can just not consider the word gendered, the problem with gendered words is mostly given by social constructs, the word does not have any since it's long dead

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5too 8 points 7 months ago

...crap, I'm cis male and I wanna be addressed as "mage"...

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agent_nycto 6 points 7 months ago

You can just do that ya know. Just be a wizard. Tell people to address you as such. Don't even have to be trans you can change your name and everything

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stringere 3 points 7 months ago

I work with magical lights that spring forrh from runes written in gold powered by ancient ichor and magic rocks.

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SirSamuel 7 points 7 months ago

I am legit going to use Magister as a replacement option for Mr/Mrs. It's formal, archaic, and gender neutral. That's the trifecta right there

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CptHacke 46 points 7 months ago

Having worked in the retail sector for some time, I quickly learned that appearances are often deceiving after a few embarrassing blunders on my part. I taught myself to call everyone 'my friend'. I had no more problems after that.

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meejle 29 points 7 months ago

Also if you have to hand someone off to another colleague, I find you can just use "we", and it still feels polite. At least compared to calling them "the customer" (clumsy) or "they" (weird, when they're right next to you). 😃

"So, we're looking for [product], and we need it to be [thing]. Oh, and we have a budget of £25."

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CptHacke 12 points 7 months ago

Yes, I've done this, as well. It definitely works.

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defaultusername 37 points 7 months ago

Comrade

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TheAsianDonKnots 33 points 7 months ago

I was raised in southern hospitality, so I know exactly what you’re going through.

I just stopped using pronouns altogether.

“Excuse me” “Thank you” “I appreciate you” “Do you know the way to San Jose”

Turns out 99% of interactions don’t depend on what genitals a person’s rocking. I guess if you’re asked to identify a suspect in a crime it might help? Point being, stop focusing on their crotch and what they’re doing with it 😁 you’ve been trained to be weird about it.

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otp 18 points 7 months ago

I just stopped using pronouns altogether.

“Excuse me” “Thank you” “I appreciate you” “Do you know the way to San Jose”

ALL of these have pronouns. At least one of them has multiple pronouns! Haha

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fartographer 8 points 7 months ago

What are talking about? Said it perfectly fine, are being intentionally dense. Sorry but people like annoy the shit out of.

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otp 3 points 7 months ago

("it" is also a pronoun")

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fartographer 4 points 7 months ago

Oh fuck...

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TheAsianDonKnots 7 points 7 months ago

Sorry, meant gender pronouns.

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nile_istic 6 points 7 months ago

Everyone with a brain knew what you meant, don't worry.

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agent_nycto 1 point 7 months ago

Didn't be a pedant, and don't laugh after being a pedant. It's condescending and rude.

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SirSamuel 1 point 7 months ago

*pedant

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agent_nycto 1 point 7 months ago

Damned auto correct

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CannonFodder 4 points 7 months ago

'San' is gendered /s

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gwl 2 points 7 months ago

You is a pronoun btw, just it's only used in specific contexts

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Nemo -7 points 7 months ago

I can't not address a person, that's incredibly rude.

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LurkingLuddite 10 points 7 months ago

You can address someone without gendered pronouns... they even gave examples.

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Nemo -3 points 7 months ago

I can and do address people without gendered pronouns. OP was suggesting not addressing them with an honorific at all.

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LurkingLuddite 2 points 7 months ago

That might be the words they said while completely ignoring the examples, but those examples made it abundantly clear that they meant gendered pronouns.

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TwiddleTwaddle 19 points 7 months ago

Some of my friends use "yes them" jokingly to replace yes sir/yes ma'am. Certainly not correct in any grammatical way, but it does flow well enough and is kindof funny as long as the person being addressed doesnt mind.

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GalacticGrapefruit 17 points 7 months ago

Personally, I like "Sir" as in the Star Trek/Orville usage. It did happy things to my brain when the crew on the Orville referred to Commander Kelly Grayson (a cis woman) as "Sir", respectfully referring to her by her proper title as a commanding officer. That was cool. I like the gender neutral "Sir" a lot.

But for casual usage, "Friend" or "Neighbor" is nice. "Hey, neighbor, you dropped this." "Excuse me, friend, lemme reach around you here."

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empireOfLove2 8 points 7 months ago

I also like this interpretation. It's the same gender neutral connotation as the Cali surfer "dude" or "bro" used equally with everyone.

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GalacticGrapefruit 3 points 7 months ago

I am a believer in the gender-neutral California 'dude'. But only if it's used by someone from the West Coast.

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white_nrdy 2 points 7 months ago

Similar to "boi"

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FinjaminPoach 2 points 7 months ago

Yeah I think "sir" trumps madam because it's professional

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captainlezbian 1 point 7 months ago

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SuperPengato 16 points 7 months ago

I just call everyone "comrade".

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Chippys_mittens 16 points 7 months ago

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BertramDitore 15 points 7 months ago

This one bugs me a bit. I’m sure it’s said with good intentions, but I have a client who calls everyone on my team “friend” whether or not she knows us, and it always rubs me the wrong way. We’re not friends, she’s the client in a professional setting, and she has never shown any interest in getting to know me enough to actually call me “friend” and have it mean something, so it always comes across as superficial and unnaturally folksy.

As someone who doesn’t have a ton of deep friendships, the ones I do have matter a lot to me, which means I don’t like to throw around the word “friend” lightly.

Could just be my own emotional hangups though.

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Chippys_mittens 11 points 7 months ago

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fartographer 4 points 7 months ago

Friend-o. And carry a coin.

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agent_nycto 15 points 7 months ago

Ok so reading the comments, from Appalachia, and I didn't see it about anyone specific.

So the reason why nothing seems correct is because nothing new will have the same level of cultural history. If you're trying to show social deference to people things like "friend" or "pal" won't work, and "chief" sounds too informal.

You can still use "sir" and "ma'am" under most circumstances, so the question is more about your circumstances.

Are you trying to find something that replaces those honorifics all together, or do you want a backup third option in case someone says they are non binary?

Are you still in the same culture, or have you moved to a culture that doesn't emphasize honorifics like you were raised with?

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SirSamuel 7 points 7 months ago

You're amazing and so are your questions.

I'm looking for a third option for sir/ma'am, and a substitute for Chief that's a bit more formal.

The culture I'm in now is not as formal, this isn't so much finding something to work within the culture of this area as it is to marry my culture to the one I find myself in. I have very little to connect me to my people here and so the traditions I choose to keep are more important as a result. I like saying sir/ma'am. It's the verbal equivalent of holding the door open for someone. But for some people being addressed that way is invalidating, and I want to meet people where they are, not force them to come to me.

I like Magister as a third option for Mr/Mrs., and Professor as a more formal Chief. But sir/ma'am has me stumped

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agent_nycto 4 points 7 months ago

Well if you want to keep a similar motif, Cap'n is vaguely formal, vaguely military esque, and it's gender neutral. Could be seafaring or land based.

You probably won't find anything with the same level of formality as sir/ma'am, so you're going to have to compromise a little bit on that front, but I think people will like the attempt regardless!

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stringere 3 points 7 months ago

Not OP but I think that's a darn good suggestion.

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SelfHigh5 1 point 7 months ago

Reminds me of Dana calling Dr Robby «Cap» on The Pitt.

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stringere 3 points 7 months ago

I truly admire your intent in this quest of yours. Admirable.

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SirSamuel 1 point 7 months ago

♥️

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Mesophar 3 points 7 months ago

I would recommend asking the person what they prefer, for people you know ahead of time are non-binary. For people you don't know ahead of time, choose whichever you think is most likely, apologize if you get it wrong, and ask them afterwards what they prefer.

Unless it is adopted widely by society, any third option will likely be met with confusion, and will still likely offend some people.

For a suggestion of a third option, however, might I offer "boss"? Slightly more formal than chief (in my experience), gender neutral, and allows you to make it as playful or respectful as the situation needs.

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stringere 3 points 7 months ago

Just be aware that there are some slavery/prison connotations to boss in the US and some might be offended.

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Mesophar 2 points 7 months ago

Was not aware of that! I'm assuming it is a South/West thing? Never encountered that in the North East

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FunStuffIsFun 2 points 7 months ago

Try using "Captain". It has a high level of prestige and dignity without feeling too informal like "Chief".

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ThirdConsul 1 point 7 months ago

As a foreigner whose native tongue has gendered nouns and adjectives: we default to sir to sir-presenting people, ma'am to ma'am presenting, and "sir? ma'am? " when unsure and clarification is needed.

I do not understand why you'd want to preemptively force gender someone by choosing a neutral/or newspeak/ form of address - to me it seems much much much worse than defaulting to asking for preference ("sir? ma'am?" option is the best - it declares you've noticed the interlocutor is a nb and passes the ball to them).

If you're looking for 1 word that would always work, I recommend embracing your inner old British Lady and calling everyone pet (petal), dear or love. :-)

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LettyWhiterock 5 points 7 months ago

Clearly we need to start adopting Japanese honorifics that way we can just call people -san.

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agent_nycto 2 points 7 months ago

There's like, 20 or more honorifics in Japanese. I think that -sama is more culturally equivalent for the Appalachian sir/ma'am, but those honorifics, iirc, usually have to go with a name or a job or something, while the Appalachian sir/ma'am can be used with strangers.

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Ghostalmedia 14 points 7 months ago

Chief is the only correct answer.

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SirSamuel 9 points 7 months ago

I often call people chief. One time I started to say Yessir, realized midway the person I was taking to might not appreciate the label, tried to change lanes and say Yeah, Chief, and wound up saying Yes Chef.

We had a really good conversation about The Bear TV series afterwards

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funkless_eck 5 points 7 months ago

I mean chef literally means chief

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Lushed_Lungfish 13 points 7 months ago

I've asked people to call me 'it'. Hasn't happened yet.

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SirSamuel 7 points 7 months ago

Yesn't, I can do that

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calmblue75 2 points 7 months ago

I thought 'it' was a third person pronoun.

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moondoggie 13 points 7 months ago

Ran into that problem with my enby friend. Specifically in the jokey context, like when a friend asks you to do something and you say “Yes Sir!” Or “Yes Ma’am!” in a kind of over the top way. They hadn’t really thought about it either and they were flummoxed too. We wound up with “Yes Colonel!”

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TheFresh16 16 points 7 months ago

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anthropozaen 13 points 7 months ago

M'theydy

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SirSamuel 1 point 7 months ago

Hat tipping intensifies

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GutterRat42 11 points 7 months ago

Fucker!

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TrollTrollrolllol 2 points 7 months ago

Sup, bozo?

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GutterRat42 2 points 7 months ago

Gentleperson?

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TrollTrollrolllol 1 point 7 months ago

Now that's just too nice. I like to start with a slight insult just to make sure people know where they stand.

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pixxelkick 11 points 7 months ago

Cant go wrong with "Partner"

"Scuse me Partner, is this seat taken?" Still slaps if you say it confidently enough

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homesweethomeMrL 11 points 7 months ago

Got any of that good sarsaparilla?

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Battle_Masker 2 points 7 months ago

You here lookin for the Sundance Kid too?

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AskewLord 11 points 7 months ago

just don't use any honorifics.

problem solved.

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Fondots 22 points 7 months ago

I work in 911 dispatch, understandably once in a while I get a caller who is just absolutely losing their mind over whatever is going on that they're calling about

And sometimes pretty much the only thing I can do to grab my callers attention and bring them back around to listening to me is to just kind of repeat sir/ma'am until I get their attention they come back around to realizing I'm trying to talk to them.

If I can get their name, I use that instead and it's more effective, but that's not always a given.

Just sitting there in silence until they get their shit together on their own doesn't work, and more likely they're going to just hang up on me.

And repeating whatever question I need answered really just kind of goes in one ear and out the other while they continue going off.

Their name or sir/ma'am is punchier, it has a way of cutting through their panic and grabbing their attention saying "you are being addressed right now and the person addressing you needs your attention"

And I really wish we had a good, gender-neutral equivalent of that. It needs to be polite and professional, and maybe a bit authoritative-sounding, so something like "dude" obviously won't cut it.

And I need it both for trans/non-binary people, and people whose gender just isn't clear on the phone because they're in a panic, calling from a potato, and/or just have a somewhat ambiguous voice.

Normally I just have to pick one and go with it, and they'll either correct me (in some cases, choosing the wrong one might actually be more effective at grabbing their attention because astonishingly (/s) people don't enjoy being misgendered and they jump at the opportunity to correct that) or they also just roll with it.

But I'd really like to avoid that if I can, and I haven't really found a good option for it yet.

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Ludicrous0251 3 points 7 months ago

Have you tried a dolphin impersonation? I think that's gender neutral.

"EEK EEK EEK EEK EEK"

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SirSamuel 1 point 7 months ago

If we're going non-English, I'd prefer to address people like Death of Rats

The Death of Rats materialized behind the heap in the forge, and trudged to the sad little heap of fur that had been a rat that got in the way of the scythe. Its ghost was standing beside it, looking apprehensive. It didn’t seem very pleased to see him. “Squeak? Squeak?” SQUEAK, the Death of Rats explained. “Squeak?” SQUEAK, the Death of Rats confirmed. “[Preen whiskers] [twitch nose]?” The Death of Rats shook its head. SQUEAK. The rat was crestfallen. The Death of Rats laid a bony but not entirely unkind paw on its shoulder. SQUEAK. The rat nodded sadly.

Reaper Man by Terry Pratchett

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SirSamuel 9 points 7 months ago

Honorifics are part of my culture and tradition. I've let go of a lot of other things from my culture that interfere with loving my neighbor, but there's certain social mores I don't want to abandon. Honorifics are a way of showing respect to others in my culture, it is as ingrained as taking off one's hat and standing for a funeral procession.

Korean is easier, just call everyone Teacher. Problem solved.

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classic 5 points 7 months ago

I'd low key support using teacher. You could pull it off. If everyone can be "my friend," which is used, they can be teacher. Sends a nice mssg. Even if they are not my friend, they can be my teacher

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SirSamuel 2 points 7 months ago

I'm gonna use Professor if I want something more formal than Chief

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Cracks_InTheWalls 2 points 7 months ago

Curious about your culture, in the North American anglosphere at least Professor has some negative/sarcastic connotations if you're not actually a professor (essentially suggesting someone is a dumbass). Just be careful with that one.

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hexagonwin 2 points 7 months ago

the word you mean (선생님) is quite different from 'teacher' tho, can't think of an english equivalent of that word..

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SirSamuel 2 points 7 months ago

Could… could it be summed up… like considering cultural context, including historical respect for certain vocations, and Confucian influences in earlier centuries, as a word like, I don't know, Teacher?

I kid I kid, i get what you're saying, but teacher is generally accepted as the English translation for 선생님 to the best of my knowledge. Granted, I haven't studied the language for almost 20 years but I think that's still the case, yes?

Also, and genuinely curious here, what is used for "teacher" in a school setting? Like I can see a little kid saying 제 선생님은 재미있서 because of how 선생님 is used. But if a teenager said their teacher sucks what word would they use?

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hexagonwin 2 points 7 months ago

honestly i'm not sure lol

you're right but that's mostly in the context of students referring to their teachers, i had the impression it's quite different from the way it gets used as a second person pronoun or as a way of showing respect to someone.

Also, and genuinely curious here, what is used for "teacher" in a school setting? But if a teenager said their teacher sucks what word would they use?

선생님 is the primary way of refering to teachers, but if one's being rude they might as well say "선생" (without the "님") or their name, nickname, etc..

english isn't my primary language so i'm not sure if my comment makes sense lol

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AskewLord -2 points 7 months ago

that sucks.

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classic 7 points 7 months ago

Check their question again. It's pretty ingrained in some dialects

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remon 11 points 7 months ago

Gentlepeople?

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ProdigiousInsanity 11 points 7 months ago

But what if they are an MMA fighter?

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DagwoodIII 10 points 7 months ago

"Citizen."

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joyjoy 10 points 7 months ago

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DagwoodIII 3 points 7 months ago

I was actually going for 1960s Batman.

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Cethin 10 points 7 months ago

I like that in Battlestar Galactica, Sir is the honorific for all military officers. They use madame for the president, but the military calls everyone Sir.

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rob_t_firefly 5 points 7 months ago

That's not strictly a scifi thing, it was a prevailing real-world military custom for a long time to address all military superiors as "sir" regardless of gender. These days the thinking varies, and as women have been integrating into the military for many generations now in more and more places women officers may be addressed as "ma'am."

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FunStuffIsFun 10 points 7 months ago

I use "Captain". It has been met with 100% success.

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eestileib 2 points 7 months ago

Came here to say this, or "cap"

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remon 2 points 7 months ago

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SCmSTR 10 points 7 months ago

RoboCop "citizen"

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nylo 9 points 7 months ago

I love this question and the discourse it's spawned!

personally I'll use "friend" if I'm at all acquainted with the other person or bend over backwards to not use one if I'm not. not too hard to leave it out if you try, and like anything becomes second nature pretty quick.

that being said I do use "chef" a lot, especially the phrase "heard, chef!" and I haven't worked in a kitchen in almost a decade lol

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HubertManne 5 points 7 months ago

I can't hear friend without thinking. im not your friend ....

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Fishnoodle 9 points 7 months ago

Just say Y'all, it pretty much covers that

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RavenFellBlade 9 points 7 months ago

I prefer "fellow human" spoken in a slightly suspicious manner.

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Opisek 9 points 7 months ago

Your highness

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shittydwarf 9 points 7 months ago

"My friend" is pretty safe

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snooggums 4 points 7 months ago

I'm not your friend, buddy!

Don't like forced closeness as a neutral greeting, comes across to me as either manipulative or meaningless.

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halfdane 4 points 7 months ago

I'm not your buddy, pal!

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SirSamuel 1 point 7 months ago

It works for person's of middle eastern cultural descent for sure, but it's fairly casual for a native English speaker from Appalachia

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wraekscadu 9 points 7 months ago

Sorry for the non answer, but here's a little rant:

Honorifics should go away. They unnecessarily create and restate hierarchies that don't really need to exist.

On the receiving end, it has always felt weird being called "sir". A smile is more than enough, thank you very much.

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Horsey 7 points 7 months ago

If a person who knows me calls me “sir” I ask them to not call me sir. I loathe being called sir lol.

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agavaa 1 point 7 months ago

Yeah, in Scandinavia you just say "you" or use a person's name when referring to somebody else. Or their job title if it fits the context. You can really feel that you're not "below" anybody, we all deserve the same level of respect and the language reflects that. Additionally, you don't need to guess anybody's gender if you're not sure, avoids uncomfortable situations.

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renormalizer 9 points 7 months ago

Greetings, sentient!

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Agent641 9 points 7 months ago

Folks. It's my go-to.

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SirSamuel 1 point 7 months ago

Found Obama

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Mac 9 points 7 months ago

I use 'homie' sometimes. It's not always the right option but it's another arrow in the quiver.

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Furbag 0 points 7 months ago

Homie comes from hommes, which is French for man/men. May also be closely related to hombre, which is man in Spanish. Definitely think it's risky to use it as a gender neutral term even though it's just regular slang in English.

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jdr 3 points 7 months ago

This is just made up nonsense.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/homie

Might be a descendant of Latin "homo" (man), but that doesn't matter a damn, x homie" just isn't gendered and etymology doesn't change that.

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Cricket 3 points 7 months ago

@jdr@lemmy.ml @Furbag@lemmy.world Wait, that wiktionary explanation seems weird too. I always thought of homie as being a derivative of "homeboy" or "homegirl". I could be wrong, but I definitely started hearing homie after those two and have always thought that they were connected. In fact, the wiktionary page for homeboy lists homie as a related term, so to me it seems like the two pages are contradicting each other.

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Furbag 1 point 7 months ago

"Um ackshually it's man in Latin!" ☝️🤓

Yeah, okay, thanks for proving my point. Probably shouldn't be using a word that means "man" in several romance languages if your goal is to be gender neutral.

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NickwithaC 8 points 7 months ago

Mate

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gwl 8 points 7 months ago

The scousers (people from Liverpool, England, UK) have a very useful one in their dialect, "Youse" (pronounced Ewes, like the sheep)

And it's gender neutral, but also double as a group pronoun

Youse gonna use that?

(Person, are you going to use that?)

Hey youse, heading out?

(Depends on context, can be singular, can be group, either "Person, are you going to go outside?" or "People, are you going to go outside?")

It's v useful

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Madzielle 3 points 7 months ago

two yutes.

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SirSamuel 3 points 7 months ago

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gwl 1 point 7 months ago

❓

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Madzielle 2 points 7 months ago

it's from the movie "My cousin Vinny".

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gwl 2 points 7 months ago

Ah nice, I remember it now, though it's actually taken from real Italo-American dialects I think

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SirSamuel 2 points 7 months ago

Pittsburg is similar. Yens

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gwl 2 points 7 months ago

Huh, it's similar to the Glasgow, Scotland, UK gender neutral one, yons

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nomy 2 points 7 months ago

From the Ozarks, we have a similar "yuns."

I assumed it was a shortened form of "you ones."

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stringere 2 points 7 months ago

Just a bit north in the Lou area we use y'all quite liberally.

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gwl 2 points 7 months ago

There's a lot of your dialect based on Scottish and Irish, so it makes sense, y'all were Dutch + Scottish + Irish + English invaders if I remember rightly

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gwl 1 point 7 months ago

It's the etymology of it here

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crapwittyname 2 points 7 months ago

Nice to see the Scouse dialect get a mention! But sadly I have to inform you that we nicked that particular one from the Irish.

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gwl 3 points 7 months ago

Y'know, makes sense, y'all were one of their biggest trading partners for literally like 500 years

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crapwittyname 2 points 7 months ago

We're all some degree of Irish here, even if just honorary.

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edg 8 points 7 months ago

Marcie calls Peppermint Patty Sir, so maybe that works. Only half joking.

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KittenBiscuits 8 points 7 months ago

Lean into the southern-ness and call them Honey, Sugar, or Sweetie?

It gets easier to pull off the older I get.

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joyjoy 8 points 7 months ago

I feel like I might get a call from HR if I use those.

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swab148 6 points 7 months ago

Ants are eating Jim

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otp 8 points 7 months ago

This is hard.

Buddy? Sounds dismissive.

My friend? Sounds like you're a scammer or a slimy salesperson.

Pal? Sounds mildly aggressive.

Dude? Arguably masculine.

Gen Alpha might have it right -- "bro" seems to be gender neutral and used by both boys and girls.

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glimse 9 points 7 months ago

Dude is absolutely gender neutral, didn't you learn anything from Good Burger?

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otp 2 points 7 months ago

I agree, but not everyone agrees. And the problem with these "honourifics" (or whatever these are called) is that you have to get them right before the recipient heard them.

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Maeve 2 points 7 months ago

Sibling; cuz; fam

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glimse 2 points 7 months ago

Good Burger came out 30 years ago and is only notable because there's a song about it, dude was gender neutral before that. I'm not gonna change my speech to accommodate someone's anachronistic definition of a word lol

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SirSamuel 0 points 7 months ago

I think technically it's "bru", possibly "bruh"

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corsicanguppy 3 points 7 months ago

I don't know about all gen-x but I feel a strong aggressive feeling at 'bruh'. Maybe the legion of kids saying it so often that you wish for a 'literally' as respite has given me opinions.

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daychilde 2 points 7 months ago

I assume this is what getting old feels like is all. We rolled our eyes at the adults who rolled their eyes at things we said that were "cool". And now we roll our eyes at the young kids (who are in their 30s now). heh

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otp 2 points 7 months ago

I think young Millennials and Zoomers said "bruh", and it was mostly used ironically.

Younger Zoomers (I think?) started using "bro" unironically, and it caught on big time with Gen Alpha. At least from what I've heard.

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PyroNeurosis 7 points 7 months ago

I like referring to all as boss or chief.

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___ 6 points 7 months ago

Sounds like something a food truck vendor selling spicy shawarmas would say.

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Vae_celery 3 points 7 months ago

Sounds like something a villain's goon would say.

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Crozekiel 7 points 7 months ago

My partner and I landed on "Captain" (or the truncated "Cap'n"). But that might be all the star trek we watch bleeding over (I never thought having "make it so, number 1" whispered in my ear would be so hot).

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Horsey 7 points 7 months ago

I like to use “dude” or “guy” in a neutral way.

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Agent641 6 points 7 months ago

I often say 'man' as an affectation regardless of gender, but today I accidentally said "thanks man" to an obvious trans woman at the kitchen store and felt really bad but she pretended not to notice.

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SirSamuel 1 point 7 months ago

That can be the challenge with Chief as well, it's often said in a masculine context. Boss and Captain don't have the same challenges (although penal culture can affect when Boss is appropriate to use)

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rob_t_firefly 4 points 7 months ago

Some people who aren't men have a negative reaction to being addressed as "dude" or "guy" nowadays. There's been a lot of writing about it online by women and non-binary folks, and some people in my life IRL have expressed that feeling as well.

"Guy" and "dude" had been all-encompassing gender-neutral terms in my head for ages (I grew up in the 1980s-1990s when we were all dudes) but I've been making an effort to switch away from using them that way because I like my speech patterns to be kind by default.

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caradenada 3 points 7 months ago

M'dude.

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Nemo 7 points 7 months ago

I've written about this before, but "neighbor" or "cousin" or "my friend" usually work. If you can have a bit if fun with it, "Senator" is great. If plural, "folks".

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TheFresh16 6 points 7 months ago

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grue 5 points 7 months ago

“Mx” can work

Writing it is one thing, but how are you supposed to pronounce it? It can't possibly be "mix;" that'd be like pronouncing "Mr." as "murr" instead of "mister."

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TheFresh16 3 points 7 months ago

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gon 6 points 7 months ago

Sa'am.

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CovfefeKills 5 points 7 months ago

Just invent something. English isn't even a strictly gendered language. Just don't expect anyone to want to use a lame word like xir or some other derivative hipster shit you gotta stick the landing. You can just choose to create new words and see if something catches on noone will stop you from trying. People do tend to be masc or fem for a reason and probably don't want to be treated like something inbetween so keep that in mind.

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deadbeef79000 5 points 7 months ago

I can't think of one that would be as universal as the sir/ma'am pair.

I think it's probably most polite to ask them.

Or at least to assume one or the other, use it with an enquiring tone, apologise if corrected and move on.

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antonim 2 points 7 months ago

But that won't fuel the internet discourse™!

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leadore 5 points 7 months ago

S'mr'amr

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SirSamuel 1 point 7 months ago

Killing is wrong. And bad. There should be a new, stronger word for killing. Like badwrong, or badong. Yes, killing is badong. From this moment, I will stand for the opposite of killing: gnodab.

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kieron115 5 points 7 months ago

I was told "dude" counts as gender neutral these days, but people seem to differ in opinion on that one.

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jordanlund 4 points 7 months ago

One of my favorite sci fi authors addressed it like this:

M.

Mr? Mrs? Miss? Ms? Nope. "M."

Steve Perry - great books. He did a bunch of licensed books for Star Wars and Aliens, but his own universe is excellent!

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elucubra 4 points 7 months ago

Yo!

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DudeImMacGyver 4 points 7 months ago

Xir?

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SirSamuel 4 points 7 months ago

In writing it works, in person, not so much.

Kinda like saying most churches are more interested in profits than prophets. It takes very precise pronunciation to deliver that one verbally lol

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gwl 3 points 7 months ago

Buddy, Friend, Majesty, Squire

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innermachine 3 points 7 months ago

I think boss works decent as a neutral way to respectfully address some body in a position of authority, I have refered to many a manager and or client as "boss" when I dont know know their name

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I_Has_A_Hat 3 points 7 months ago

In a similar vein, what are you supposed to call aunts/uncles that are non-binary?

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glimse 6 points 7 months ago

Auncles

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captainlezbian 3 points 7 months ago

Certainly not late for dinner. Or at least that's what they tell me

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Akuchimoya 3 points 7 months ago

Personally, I'm in favour of "mamsir", which is the obvious compounding of "ma'am" and "sir". The Internet tells me it's used in the Philippines, but I could have sworn I first heard of it being used in India 🤷‍♀️

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prex 3 points 7 months ago

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ShaggySnacks 2 points 7 months ago

What about Sport?

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finallymadeanaccount 3 points 7 months ago

"Hey"

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Kolanaki 2 points 7 months ago

Dude

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olafurp 2 points 7 months ago

Avoid honorifics with "there" (e.g. hello, sir - > hello there) or drop. Otherwise use boss, friend, chief or captain depending on vibes.

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Snowballfighter 2 points 7 months ago

In Dragon Age, Serah and Messere and the gender neutral terms, which i alway thought went nicely with "Ladies & Gentlemen, Serahs & Messeres!” However Serah is for those equal or lower in status and Messere is higher status. Choose wisely.

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WeLoveCastingSpellz 2 points 7 months ago

I use Mx or Mxtress with my Owner

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innermachine 5 points 7 months ago

How exactly are u pronouncing that? Like Mx = "em-ex"?

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WeLoveCastingSpellz 3 points 7 months ago

I kinda do Mix which they don't seem to mind

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HubertManne 2 points 7 months ago

I think devils panties had a comic around this topic. can't remember if she had anything in the notes with an answer.

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captainlezbian 1 point 7 months ago

Mx may work for that. To my knowledge there's no accepted sir/ma'am equivalent, though most nonbinary folks I've met prefer sir to ma'am unless they lean solidly to the feminine.

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Skv -5 points 7 months ago

Go by language rules - It.

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6) No US Politics.

Please don't post about current US Politics. If you need to do this, try !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world or !uspolitics@lemmy.world

7) No Hit-and-Run questions.

Please don't delete your post for no apparent reason. If you plan on deleting a question later, say so in the post, or if you feel that you have a good reason to remove it, message a mod beforehand. It's not fair to the ones who took their time to answer, and it's not in the spirit of the community.

8) No Bots.

Posts or comments from bots, LLM's, AIs, Neural Networks, Transformers, or Marvin the Paranoid Android are not welcome in AskLemmy. Real humans only please.

Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.

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A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions

Rules: (interactive)

1) Be nice and; have fun

Doxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, toxicity and dog-whistling are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them

2) All posts must end with a '?'

This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?

3) No spam

Please do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.

4) NSFW is okay, within reason

Just remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either !asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world or !asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com. NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].

5) This is not a support community.

It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.

6) No US Politics.

Please don't post about current US Politics. If you need to do this, try !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world or !uspolitics@lemmy.world

7) No Hit-and-Run questions.

Please don't delete your post for no apparent reason. If you plan on deleting a question later, say so in the post, or if you feel that you have a good reason to remove it, message a mod beforehand. It's not fair to the ones who took their time to answer, and it's not in the spirit of the community.

8) No Bots.

Posts or comments from bots, LLM's, AIs, Neural Networks, Transformers, or Marvin the Paranoid Android are not welcome in AskLemmy. Real humans only please.

Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.

Partnered Communities:

No Stupid Questions

You Should Know

Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu

go to feed...