I mean, you're just replacing one archaic symbol with another.
If you had to replace the floppy disk save symbol in software with a new symbol for saving what would you choose and why?
8 months ago by supersquirrel to c/asklemmy
I mean, you're just replacing one archaic symbol with another.
Which predate computers and floppy disks
I agree. I heard recently a lot of kids under 20 grew up in an iPhone, iPad, and chrome world and never learned “folder” or directory concepts so it’s a tough transition in the work world. Paper organizers are not nearly as ubiquitous as they once were.
Isn't that used as an icon for moving a file from one folder to another?
i think in that case your should first click on a "folder with arrow going out" (move out) icon before given this one to move into another directory. so the context is clear.
Yeah, if an open folder icon means ‘open a file’, then this inversion means saving the file.
That's a good one for local storage.
Some software uses that arrow with a cloud to say it's saved into the cloud.
Yeah, and we could give that huge file some kind of internal and logical structure to find those chunks, maybe something hierarchical with human readable names!
Easy to find saves time
PalmOS actually did that. Programs had records saved in a central database, not files.
Yea replace the 90s tech icon for the filing cabinet paper folder , from who knows when. It's actually a good suggestions this technology still hasn't disappeared. But it will soon, as foretold by the paperless office prophecies. So I think a half buried treasure chest icon would be better as a forever lasting icon.
I reject the question. That's not a picture of a floppy disc, that is the glyph that means save
You literally called it the save symbol. And that's what it is...100 years from now, if we're still around and still have computers, the save icon will still be some stylized glyph based on the floppy disc
The existence of the floppy disc is already just a bit of trivia about the save icon
It's like asking what we should change the Bluetooth symbol to? Why do you yearn for the world to burn?
An icon can be any random glyph, but it has to stay recognizable and consistent in meaning, that's the entire concept here
thats's the Google AI icon
"All your base (data) are belong to us" -Google AI
Why you want to save file if you can just feed if you ai and let it hallucinate if you want to read it
... Why is the generative llm glyph here? nervous
You can't just jump to the future, so use this one for the next decade:
Can't skip a generation, gotta go from the floppy disk icon to the HDD icon for a while first.
Forgot about Zip drives.
Meh, just a hard floppy. Although I really did appreciate my Zip 100 drive for that storage space before writable CDs came along.
But hard drives came first.
Hard drives pre-dated floppy discs by 15 years.
I bow to thy argumentation. This be-eth the way
Yet 90% of young people won't know what it is because digital cameras have been replaced by phones and phones no longer have microSD lol
In the dystopia of outer-worlds-esque orwellien-surveillance corporate feudalism it looks like they will have to endure, I think we can afford to lighten up on them 😂
Digital cameras are in style again. I've seen screenless ones for sale at several places these past few weeks.
every letter in the alphabet started as a symbol of something 2500-6000 years ago, "A" for instance is an upside-down Ox head. people in future generations will continue using the floppy symbol, cuz they learned that means saving, despite floppies not being relevant to their lives
Early, and often.
I think we should just keep the floppy disk symbol at this point, because it doesn't matter what it was originally based on or whether that exists any more--everyone knows what that symbol means, and it can't really be confused with anything else.
There's no point making an icon that looks like any other particular kind of storage device since those are changing all the time. So we either have to pick some real world thing like a safe or warehouse or grain silo or whatever. or invent some completely new symbol that's not related to anything and then everyone would have to learn it. Which takes us back to just keeping the floppy disk symbol.
grain silo
This is a hilariously awkward suggestion. At the scale of the average save icon, what do you think a grain silo symbol would look like?
Honestly probably the most universally recognizable save symbol in the end, certainly if I had to go back in time and establish contact with an ancient people and teach them Intuit Quickbooks or other tax accounting software to run a cutthroat tax accounting operation using timetravel to access low cost labor that would be the icon I would choose for saving.
Timeless. Ubiquitous. Mandatory for all of K-12 and often beyond. Perfect.
I agree. I made this jokingly, but a number of people seem to actually like it. I also started thinking on how to improve it immediately after I made it lol.
To download is still to save to one's disk.
Not if you're saving to the cloud...
That's called an upload, literally the opposite
You have multiple scenarios. Save...
You think these all apply to the concept of "download"?
I said none of that. I don't know why you'd assume any of the above from an obviously simplified laymans' explanation of the concept of a download. I'm well aware of this, but my target audience may not be. Write for your audience, not for you.
I've seen something like that used, and I think it fits the bill just fine!
For 99% of users, the specifics make no difference at all.
It's closer to reality than a floppy disk icon, that's for sure.
A squirrel, as in to squirrel it away
Best answer, but the save button should save the file somewhere random each time on the storage if the icon is a squirrel.
So, like my work computer then
Doesn’t everybody save stuff somewhere in the mess that is their desktop?
Kind of just sounds like OneDrive.
They'll get it for you if you want it, but you don't get to know where it's actually stored (or who else is accessing it).
Where's your file dude?
Sorry for not submitting my homework on time. The squirrel took it away, never to be seen again.
Isnt it the glorious zip disks turn first?
What a save!
Okay.
Wow!
Let's be real, when some shitty company (MS) gets around to it, it will be: ☁️⬆️
Hahahaha, dammit you win
What even is the point in changing it? Like sure we don't use floppies anymore, but it's a well established symbol for saving.
What did they replace it with?
I've seen a hard drive.
A quill
If the floppy disk was no longer the save symbol for software, and I had to chose one, I'd chose the floppy disk symbol.
But you worded your question wisely to avoid that loophole, so I'm not sure what to use instead for an otherwise unique and ubiquitous symbol, already known as "the save file icon" for two generations that have not seen it.
While we're at it, let's also replace the phone icons with a rectangle, as to not confuse anyone.
You could make it a zip drive. No one would know the difference...
Han solo frozen in carbonite
Ouuh this is a fun one. I find that floppy disks look somewhat similar to SD-cards. Do you think the majority of kids (18 and younger) would recognize SD cards?
I do not!
You take an online thing and make it local.
I understand how some younger folk might not see as stark a contrast in saving v downloading.
I'd say if you're 30+, you prolly do.
“Downloading” is how you acquire any external data to your internal storage media.
Aaahhaha. I didn't even read that bit before writing my first lines, and that only confirms my doubts.
Never seen these, eh?

What are we doing to the file? ****Ing it?
If Windows gets their way you don't!
To me this means download
In a lot of cases, the distinction doesn't really matter. If it does in a particular application, I'd probably prefer words to make the nuance clear -- but an arrow to cloud + arrow to disk/folder may be appropriate for some of the cases if an icon is required too.
In GIMP 2.10 on my system, there's a small difference between Save and Save As's icons. I think they added a pen over the hard disk the arrow is pointing towards -- presumably to indicate re-labeling? The difference is just barely visually distinguishable on my screen though. There's also an Export option (which has no icon, despite it being something I use a fair bit more than many of the other File menu commands) and a "Send by Email..." option with pencil over some paper with lines on it (presumably lines of text that's too small to be distinct).
xed on my system has an arrow pointing at a line for Save and an arrow with a line plus 3 dots over it for Save As. Only the Save icon is on the toolbar; the other is in the File menu. I've actually never noticed that distinction before, and if I weren't actively looking for save icons in the software I have installed right now, I don't know if I'd have ever noticed...
LibreOffice still has a (very stylized) floppy disk on the toolbar for Save and no icons whatsoever in the file menu on my system.
KolourPaint uses an arrow pointing into the drawer of a filing cabinet in the toolbar, and a much more squashed version of that in the File menu -- along with something additional (a partially filed in text box to indicate relabeling?) above the Save As variant in the File Menu.
Not sure if I have any other software that I still use regularly which has a Save icon... (My browser just uses text without any icons for save from File menu or via right click menu.)
Why does it need to be separate? The end result is the same, the file on your device. Where it is coming from makes no difference.
99% of users won't care at all.
It's infinitely more accurate than a floppy disk icon.
They need to be separate because saving and downloading are two separate things.
When I’m in Photoshop, I don’t download the file I’m working on. I save it.
There’s a good reason that these two icons are currently different.
There’s a good reason that these two icons are currently different.
Not really, it's just legacy, the same reason the save icon is still a floppy disk in most programs. That's what it's always been.
You may make the distinction between saving a document and downloading a document, but most people don't pay anywhere near that amount of attention, and don't care about specifics.
the final fantasy 7 save crystal. because just look at it. LOOK AT IT!
Probably an arrow pointing to a hard drive.
Why a hard drive? Storage is moving to solid state. That icon would also be obsolete in a few years.
What about Valhala tho? Kinda seems like superior religious imagery to me.
Admit it, we all die in some small way every time we use a computer, why not seek glory in it?
A dark souls campfire/site of grace
What about saving on a cloud service? Very misleading.
But I like the floppy disk save symbol
Gotta go with an even older symbol, the ring buoy.
Ice cube, because you're freezing it in whatever working state you're in.

Go older: a punch card being inserted into a tray
Doesn’t look like any piece of technology.
It actually does, just not modern technology. It's a simplified drum memory unit, the predecessor to the hard disk drive.
You'd have your answer if you spent half a minute reading on how the tech worked in the above-linked article.
That's already the symbol of a data store, so if you hit it I'd expect it to bring up the connection configuration
I would assume that would mean either choosing between database profiles or uploading a database export
9"
Bill Gates eventual tombstone.
Can't wait to impress someone by jumping over it in one clear hop.
Well, vending machines are for bytes I suppose.
Oooh I was going to say the ff7 save point but this is good
Nah, thats for "new'
Hmmmm
scurries off to check word
Fuck.
I wonder if we would would really "expect" a new safe icon. Most modern software has auto-saving. Games for example often just use a spinning circle to indicate it's saving. Word and google docs just say "don't worry, we're continuously saving your work" when you hit Ctrl + S.
I imagine if you want to save something locally you have the downward arrow for downloading, or some other icon for moving and copying files.
Yeah and even if you save it, good fucking luck finding it again.
Even worse now that all docs are saving to "Office 365". No you stupid bastard, I want to save the file to my hard disk on the computer I fucking own!

A cloud. Just to let them know they don’t own anything anymore.
A tombstone.
Because you think that you have it fixed now to a certain place.
And you think it has got a name plate in front of it.
But you don't want to think about all the dark details of what's really happening down below!
Idk, I guess SSDs/flash media is pretty prevalent nowadays, especially in gaming context. That said, it doesn't leave much in the way of a universally identifiable icon, or animation. So maybe an exposed hard disk, with the disk spinning and the arm moving, if you can picture what I'm describing.
As I recall, 8 inch store no more data than 5.25
depends - the capactiy changed over the years. My floppies were 90k, while 8 inch at the time was a full megabyte. 5.25 floppies did reach 1.2 megabytes on other systems but they were never available to me - even if I could afford it the drives were never compatible with my atari while the 8 inch drives were (with adapters I only ever saw in magazines)
Symbol of "the cross" with hover-over text in which Microsoft writes "pray I don't amend it further."
For that future timeline when the meaning of Save becomes "stop working, let Copilot perfect it, and close"
I thought it was going to be the cross because Jesus saves
In Canada, a goalie's hockey stick.
What? Not a Maple Syrup Spile?
Reel to reel tape? Ahahaha
Probably an arrow pointing down inside of a circle, like the download icon. Most of the software I use just has text saying "Save file" and no icon, and I usually press control + S anyways so I don't have much of an opinion regarding this
The three disks thing that symbolizes database, with a down arrow on top.
Or if we’re really going for the abstract, a knight in armor fighting a dragon with a lady behind him.
A hand placing a book on a shelf
Or placing something more modern on a shelf
I'd finish my idea but I'd have to charge you 50 million dollars for it so yea...
Arrow to disk.
Why a disk? Storage isn’t even disk shaped anymore.
"Disk" means a memory chip here.
C90 cassette.
I hate this. No auto save please.
What would the symbol be for that function then?
I like: Cylinder, Snowflake, Vault, or Piggy bank
Maybe 3 stacked cylinders
An arrow pointing up at a line. Preferably with each being a different colour.
The arrow indicates movement. The line is abstract. But with the colour coding it carries the idea of 'putting the thing into the other thing'.
The rest is learned pattern recognition. A download is a down arrow in a circle because you are taking the thing from the other thing. So saving is an arrow to a line because you are putting the thing in the other thing.
But that is for recording, not saving.
Just remove it all together and use only keyboard shortcuts
( ) )======D~~~
Goatse
There should be no save button. All software should auto-save continuously while you work. There should be a "duplicate"-type menu item or button that allow you to make a copy of the document into a new file.
Almost all cloud software already works like this.
No, please no. I hate auto save. I don't mind choosing to turn it on, sometimes it's warranted, but to have it forced on? Fuck that.
"Saving" is a legacy that was introduced because of limitations related to storage in the early days of computing and makes no inherent sense within the metaphors most software operate. Broken metaphors makes things difficult to learn.
When was the last time you scribbled onto a physical document and the changes "didn't save"? Do you also hate "autosave" in the physical world?
Comparing to the physical world makes no sense because a computer is an enhancement that does things differently.
I want way to make trial and error scenarios and test ideas and scribble notes without being forced to keep the changes or retain a document. I also prefer to know where it is going.
I have some software that crashes and leaves me in this weird state where: auto save, recovery file, test sceberio. Which one was I using? Which will it choose to restore and how fucked am I now that the original is lost if I choose wrong?
Edit: I am going to say that on the other hand, in business it is wild that we give people a desktop computer when we should be giving them programs that they use. They should have metadata attached, be relative to their work, and have auto save. I am not always against auto save, it just needs to be in the appropriate places.
Comparing with the physical world makes sense when we have built these applications on physical world metaphors: "documents", "folders", "desktop", etc. We use those words precisely because they convey meaning based on the similarities with their real-world counterparts. Broken metaphors are both more difficult to learn and tend to trigger incorrect assumptions leading to operator error ("Didn't you save your document? What does that mean?").
What is worse is that, like it or not, the world is increasingly moving towards cloud services. The "edit + save" paradigm is less suited to that environment, so there we almost exclusively see the "you edit the doc itself (no need to save)" paradigm. It is difficult to see the gain of insisting on keeping both these quite different paradigms around, when the "you edit the doc directly" is no problem to implement also offline.
Now, about the practicalities: I also get fundamentally annoyed when presented with the "document recovery" dialog that brings me out of my flow. However, I interprete the situation differently. Had the software used a "you edit the doc, no need to save" paradigm, there would never be a need for "recovery". The edits I did are stored in the file I edited.
As for "I just want to scribble". Why don't you just scribble in a file called "Scribbles"? Why is that concept so offensive? You'll be happy the day your computer loses power while you are in the midst of scribbling, since you will be able to pick up exactly where you were.
🤔 do illiterate people even use computers?
can they??
You can read a pictogram faster than text, so you can find the button you're looking for faster when they're symbols once you know those symbols
No, please. I NEVER want a computer to take a decision for me (like save or discard changes). I turned off auto saving on Microsoft Office on my work computer after I unknowingly made some changes in a presentation from another team I was just looking at, and it saved those changes without my knowledge nor consent.
I work with several screens, have several windows of different programs open and, unfortunately, sometimes a keystroke doesn't go where I thought I was sending it (I'm probably getting old). Also sometimes windows from a different program come to focus unannounced and capture whatever you were typing or clicking.
re: keystroke focus - you're not just getting old, programs are getting shittier about pulling focus when they shouldn't
I work on several screens on several tasks at once typically as well, and it's infuriating when one program pulls focus as I'm typing a sentence into something else, and worse when it does so and accepts the input of my rapid keystrokes to do whatever the fuck all those hotkeys are on the thing that pulled focus
Oh hell no... You want the computer to decide where your files live??? Autosaving and saving are different things, you do need both
And version control on a filesystem is neat, but you'd still have to save it to a place. Perhaps you save it to a version controlled place, so you're not version controlling things that don't need to be tracked and filling up your entire disc when steam games update
It's your responsibility as the human to make decisions like this. It can be made easier with tools and clean workflows, but if you let the computer do it automatically you're giving up control and understanding
It's how we lose tech literacy
You want the computer to decide where your files live???
Most people already do this lmao, they just trust the program to find the file
That's called tech illiteracy... It's a bad thing
I mean... You can autosave everything temporarily under a temp filename. The program should treat it as unnamed, and then when you go to save it you then give it a location and a name
It's probably the best workflow, it's pretty common for code editors
yes
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An arrow pointing into a folder, similar to this. Sidesteps the tech issue altogether.
save