It’s the ultimate consequence of going all in on recruiting people from reddit, which I have been trying to tell people for years. You’re not making the fediverse better, you’re making it more reddity. There’s no point in leaving reddit while bringing the worst of the culture.

Please do. Uncomfortable is good.

I appreciate you posting this kind of stuff!

Lemmy really is dudebro land

I feel this every time there is a post or comment about how women should have bigger pockets in our jeans and pants.

it usually makes Lemmy users uncomfortable, so I'll keep repeating it as often as necessary.

Lol good job.

I am sorry you have experienced that. It is my hope that we have simply created a place where people feel more comfortable discussing and expressing uninformed opinions with an open mind toward learning and conversation rather than a safe place for bigots.

Lemmitors when women make political comics:

I think at least part of that comes from the fact that the most vocal feminist and anti-misogynist (and ant-racism, etc.) instances get defederated by the admins of big instances like .world which tends to concentrate the more reactionary elements into instances like .world even though it has the larger user base. Since the people who would tend to be the most vocal fighting back against the dudebro types are in a different section of the fediverse that .world cuts itself off from, those voices aren't heard and so the bigger chunk of lemmy (.world) gets a well deserved reputation for being worse than reddit in terms of crying, fragile (and white) men being overrepresented in the user base.

Luckily I haven't been exposed to much of that behaviour on my local instance. Which instances/communities are you finding all these jerks at? (I've blocked a couple for unrelated reasons so maybe I'm not seeing them.)

Damn I am tired of sexist people like you. Stop badmouthing men if your brain is too smooth to understand that "dick" can be a female too. Write no dick behavior instead, you sexist idiot. Might as well start doing memes with "no black people allowed" sign

Us Lemmy dudebros obviously cannot fully appreciate your level of rage-baiting.

So I’ll tell ya what: since we are too fragile for your upscale messaging, feel free to take it somewhere else. Your content, and you, are not welcome here at !comicstrips.

The comic you're thinking of is by webcomicname, and… it's better than my comic at making the same point tbh, I love their work.

I also commented there by accident once because I didn't read the community name. They politely asked me to refrain from doing so. I was embarrassed, and have been more careful.

Apparently for some people this is unacceptable.

It reminds me of one of my friends upset he wasn’t invited to one of our line gaming get together, despite the fact they hate the game

it's not that they weren't playing the game, it's that they were excluded from the group. they would have liked the chance to say no, or just to hang out and keep y'all topped up with snacks or whatever i don't know the exact dynamics of the group. next time, even if they hate the game, invite them and give them a chance to say no. that's what they want and what does it cost? that way they don't feel excluded from the group. it's (probably) that simple

When you're allowed everywhere by default , it can bruise something in your brain when you hit a closed door.

Now couple that with generations of bullshit tropes about women-only spaces being either lesbian pillow fight fantasies or penis-slicing plotters and shit gets weird

The legit concern I've seen is that it doesn't fit in Lemmy's structure. You can't just exclude a demographic, right? But I respectfully disagree, as I believe the expectation is that the community is "read-only" to posters identifying as men, and posting is a perfectly enforceable thing on Lemmy.

Other arguments are just baits for toxicity I'd rather not get into :(. But yeah, one factor is definitely like:

It reminds me of one of my friends upset he wasn’t invited to one of our line gaming get together, despite the fact they hate the game

It doesn't feel good to feel excluded. Being told that you're not wanted in a space/event/group makes people have an immediate reaction. I will certainly let people have their spaces, I'm just offering why I think it happens. Like you saying about the friend that wasn't invited. The friend being upset wasn't upset because he wanted involved in that game. They were upset because they weren't invited. That can make you feel unimportant, overlooked, or forgotten about. In terms of friendship, it's better to make the offer and let the person make their own decision. Unless of course you have invited the person in the past and they like blew up at you for even asking about something you know they hate. In that case I'd say not inviting is best.

I think what's missing is the request to be more special than others.

There are aquarium groups, but I've never seen them comment that you should shut up if you don't own an aquarium. There is a "dull men" group, and I never saw them trying to forbid someone to speak in their room if they are too interesting or too female.

If you don't want out-group people to participate, your solution is not a platform that allows everybody to participate, and then scold people if they do. It just makes it seem like it's a deliberate setup to be able to tell people "You made a mistake. You have the wrong gender" - and if not that, they at least demand special treatment among the equals on Lemmy, also not a character trait that people appreciate.

AFAIK the expectation is that everything there is publicly viewable, but posting is bound by the rules.

And that's (IMO) within Lemmy's structure. Mods can set whatever rules for posting that they want, and it isn't the only community that's "exclusive".

The problem is that this is not a private community, lemmy and piefed are fundamentally public spaces, not private, it is impossible and unreasonable to have a private community.

As of 1.6 Piefed does support ‘private’ (non-federating) communities that only people with certain assigned roles can invite others to: https://codeberg.org/...

The mods of the community have the idea that it’s everyone else’s problem, that tens of thousands of people should go out of their way to remedy the issue by blocking the community just so a couple hundred (thousand?) people can have no responsibility for it.

I think it’s kind of wild to expect a community to be open to everyone or not exist at all on the fediverse, along with the idea that this is a huge burden on anyone except the mods of that community who have to clean up the comment section.

Yeah nah mate

Anyone can join. Anyone can read. You're just asked not to comment because it's not a space for cismale voices.

I - and you - see HUNDREDS of comms and posts in any random feed that don't apply to you. You skate over them, don't even blink. It's absolutely nbd.

But you need a fucking cone to not post on a single women's community and it's some how the community's fault for expecting you to act like a reasonable human?

Bullshit.

In my other comment replying to the parent comment, I did that (by accident) and I left this part out but what I wanted to do was go onto ask lemmy or some similar community, link the original post and start a discussion there. Women get to keep they’re space, and men joining the conversation in good faith get to chime in

I also saw one idea floated a while ago is a bot that automatically crossposts from those women only comms into a general community, basically same concept as idea 1 just automated

But like I said in my other comment, while I would love to hop into those conversations, it kinda destroys the idea of women only community as they’d probably eventually be pushed/drowned out of their own space

you could ask a mod to ban you?

The problem isn’t restricted to one sex/gender.

Perhaps not.

...And yeah, there's all sorts of flavors of hostility even here on Lemmy.

But the manosphere seems to be "winning" their culture war, at least here in the US, compared to whatever the equivalent problem on the other end is. That feels like the bigger problem.

Yeah, that's perfectly reasonable. That's how I discovered it too.

Which subs are those? I don't think I have seem them, or I most have missed their rules.

It's called curating your own experience and as someone old enough to remember the real internet, i'll take it over an algo in a heartbeat

What exactly did feminists do to atheism or gaming?

You stink of incel

holy ew, I sincerely hope you were blackout-drunk for those thoughts

a nitpick, though: if a gender is lost, are all transitioners to said gender doing an unethical deed?

Tell me you haven't looked at a community without telling me you haven't seen it.

The top post of this week is about chocolate.

The top post of this month is called "real men cry" and it's about how men should be allowed to be emotionally vulnerable.

Funny enough, the top post of the last three months is a screenshot of:

"I see so many men saying feminism is bad. Please tell me which of my rights I don't deserve as a woman. I'm curious."

Hate speech is always wrong. No need to explain anything.

The appropriate explanation is, maybe we shouldn't advocate for the death of a diverse social group, also called a massacre?

Oh yeah fair enough. I was more focused on OP's bad argument that I forgot about this. My bad

Why would a space exclusive for feminists ever not be a safe space for women?

Yes. I think this comic just does a bad job of portraying this. The second sign is unnecessarily agressive and a conference doesnt make much of an immediate connection to a safe space.

Seems a bit sexist

'Why don't they just form their own safe space?' has the same ring to it as 'I'm not a white supremacist. I'm a racial separatist. Those s can just go somewhere else. I just don't feel safe with those things around.' Discrimination based on an immutable, unchosen characteristic like sex isn't somehow more acceptable or reasonable than on skin color.

What do you think the Gentleman's Clubs, and Men only gyms were? Those were sued into non-existence. Women are the only people that are legally allowed to have a safe space because of feminists

Uhhh why not lol? Some group being majority in power doesn't mean everyone in that group is in power, and even if they are there's no reason to divide people. I'm allied against billionaires because they are actively working to make my life worse, I'm not allied against my neighbor just because he's white and has more money than I do.

Power dynamics . Learn them.

Never! I will only engage with discrimination at a superficial and naive level, falling for every concern troll post like I was born yesterday

Sure that’s a fair point but I think it’s important to point out people also self segregate along all sorts of lines, including racially. It’s one thing if the state is enforcing segregation or if a group of people with something in common want to hang out with each other at the exclusion of people who don’t have that thing in common. Segregation and self segregation aren’t the same things.

If your issue is that it rhymes, then I think you're missing how the powerful use this to oppress and exploit people. When minorities do it, it is done to regain power and dignity from being oppressed and exploited.

Men believe that women "dominate conversation" whenever women take more than about 30% of the speaking time.

Do the following:

1. Have men and women meet in a group and have a conversation on nearly any topics.
2. Record the conversation.
3. After the conversation, have participants fill out surveys on how much time the men and women spent talking.
4. Review the tapes with a stopwatch and record the actual time spent talking by men and women.

Scientists have done this. What they find is that men will be utterly convinced that the women are dominating the speaking and conversation time, even if 2/3rds of the time is actually given over to men speaking.

Men do this without even realizing it. You probably do this without even realizing it.

If you really want techniques on how to end "passive gendered segregation," then you need to adjust the character of cis men so they don't feel that they're being discriminated against at the exact same time they're actually dominating things. Masculinity as practiced is performative and fragile.

Men do the same.

Never said they didn't.

2 & 3) We should birth fewer boys. It sounds like everyone would be happier.

I don't know if you lack the ability to understand that these four points were made in the context of why women might want a meeting without men or something else. Either way, I don't think you belong in this conversation.

I hate American "passive gendered segregation" culture and want to destroy it.

Okay.

Also, new theories and tactics to achieve what?

The goals of feminism.

Oh my. You're Bad.

Cool! Thanks for sharing your methods. I like your stick figures and your lines.

If I try to do that with a mouse, it looks like an ECG.

I'm assuming this is a joke that went over people's heads

Look up what the E in TERF stands for.

Love how this always gets downvoted, but i grew up around foster kids in that area, and I promise you his effort would have saved lives.

Same with atheists who were trying to make genital mutilation blanket illegal in the states, as well as fighting groups like the heritage foundation who want to keep such classic patriarchal standards alive, but being against that means you obviously hate women and think MGM is worse than FGM, and other strawmen. It was enough to make both progressive groups hate each other, with accusations of SJWs or incels based on similar legitimate grievances on both sides.

Heritage foundation types have obviously been making record ground in the meantime.

For some reason progressive solidarity just isn't possible, because we can't help the wrong group of struggling people. Social signalling is obviously more important than cooperatively helping those who are suffering, or in stopping the wealthy from shaping the system to fuck everyone that isn't already part of their grotesque fascist system.

Can't stop the actual fascists if other progressives are all the real enemy for some incomprehensible reason that always makes it back to stupid issues like this, where we just can't recognize the niche situation, or show basic compassion or solidarity within.

As long as we keep "punching up" we can ignore the foster kids who died alone, or festered into something negative because all they ever had was a non-life where they are simultaneously exploited and told they don't deserve help because they share some intersectional features of privilege, as explained by people who obviously never fully understood intersectionality or how such high dimensional representations can be reasonably interpreted. Usually protected by some socialized bubble of privilege where they can just go with what is being socialized and not think too hard about it.

So it's all a clusterfuck of people using the same words to say different things, and ignoring the forest for the trees.

But surely the problem is the incels, or SJWs, and not the system that exploits both and discourages either from co-constructively solving general problems of inequality.

Or just beat up the undiagnosed poverty autistic waiting to access the library, while feeling good about how much you are fighting the system of oppression.

Or like in silverman's place, bully the person trying to help a group that doesn't actually have access to help, and try to shame people who mention that crushing the potential men's shelter did not actually do anything to benefit any progressive values.

These aren't the billionaires or entrenched oligarchs that are actively shaping a society that individualizes blame in ways that ensure you never look at the lobby groups, or war machine, or people with the money generally fucking the system into their preferred fascist shape. Let's go after the fucking homeless instead I guess, because they are the truly privileged oppressors.

Lol true story vibes. I doubt it was 1 guy and I'm pretty sure women would be receptive to plight of men

Because they are a male safe space where men can be among themselves. There are plenty of non-gendered shooting clubs, so here's a question to ask yourself: Why would a woman need to be part of exactly the one that is gendered?

It's obviously not about access to a shooting club, since she could just join a non-gendered one.

So why exactly does she need to abolish a men's safe space?

Does the feminist meeting above have special words only vaginas can say?

I mean...on the flip side, do women have discussions that only vaginas can have?

you can both be right here, because both sides are equally valid.

just to add,

during the civil rights movement it was important to have equity, and I'd say when it comes to gender equity we're far more progressive about it today than 60 years ago.

I would say it's only fair to have gender blocked communities as a form of equity. whereas before women didn't even have the option to have a safe space unlike today.

No. It really doesn't matter. A safe space is a safe space. You think the guys at the shooting clubs do nothing but shoot? They talk there about men-specific issues.

There are plenty of non-gender restricted shooting clubs in my country and there are womens toilets in my country too. It's not about women not being allowed to piss or shoot. It's about these specific women not being ok with the fact that safe spaces for men exist.

Same as the guys in the OP. They don't protest because they specifically need to be in this meeting because they want to discuss women-specific issues. They are just not ok with safe spaces for women existing.

In both directions it's a power thing. People like that (no matter the gender) get off on taking things away from others. The point is not to be able to be in that place, but to take away safe spaces from someone else. And that's an asshole move for asshole reasons no matter if the person doing that is a man or a woman.

So what about you? Are you ok with male safe spaces existing? If not, tell me, what reason for that do you have that is not an asshole reason?

Yes because everyone knows when men get together all they do is burp, fart, piss, and tell racist jokes.

There are a ton of dogshit takes in this thread.

No! People are dictated predominantly by situational factors, common scumbagginess is a trait that minimally dictates behaviour in most situations. Of course you'd know about the fundamental attribution error, if you weren't such a scumbag.

I’ve heard that Colombians generally under-season and over-meat, but they’re terrifically friendly. Does that describe your experiences?

https://nationalpost.com/...

this is what the reference

In fairness, I’d be pretty miffed if I came along to support a cause or enjoy an event only to be told there was some fine print stating I wasn’t welcome and needed to leave.

Would you be just as fine with a men's rights conference that banned women? Honest question

It's Because every day I am hearing about how awful men are. We can't even have our own safe spaces because we can't be trusted. I am constantly being told about how much dumber and more dangerous we are then women. Hell, you even made assumptions of me being some incel freak

If the existence of white only spaces is enough to make you feel bad about being black, it seems what you’re actually feeling bad about is not having total access to everything and control over everyone. That’s a different issue, and is solved through therapy.

Behold, your logic.

Well tbf it is in their sidebar and a mod has to comment in every single fucking post because it's super easy to not look at the community when reading a post and nobody on mobile is reading a damn sidebar.

I will say at least when a guy wanders in accidentally the mods (not anyone else though) are nice about it, even if I do fundamentally disagree with the concept of their group (I don't like X-only, like if we had a "men only" comm I'd have the same opinion on it) and the placement of it (on a site without invite only private groups, it should be a Delta Chat group or something instead if you don't want people wandering in) and also the execution (who knows if I'm a man or a woman unless I say "as a man" in my posts? This is a pseudononymous forum, for all you know I'm three 8yo girls in a trenchcoat with a fake moustache. It seems mostly based on vibes, which is an option I guess) but whatever I can't stop discriminatory shit when they do it just as I can't when some dude does it to them, all I can control is not being a discriminatory dickhead myself, it's on them if they want to be bad people (the royal them/they).

Not my poor sandwich!

Sorry, just nature of habit. I can send $20 to the charity of your choice however.